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More mast rotation and height #79112
07/05/06 07:21 AM
07/05/06 07:21 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 96
Budapest, Hungary, Europe
CatSailingHu Offline OP
journeyman
CatSailingHu  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 96
Budapest, Hungary, Europe
Capricorn has a few really great tuning guide, like the Capricorn F-18 Tuning Guide

In the point 3.2.2, Mast rotation:

"More mast rotation – less downhaul tension = [color:"red"] height [/color] and power."

Power, ok, it's clear for me, but hight? I will try it, but I can't see the reason, why.

Any idea, why ?
Suggestions?

Sanyi

Last edited by CatSailingHu; 07/05/06 08:24 AM.

Sanyi
Nacra Infusion
www.catsailing.hu
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: CatSailingHu] #79113
07/05/06 09:18 AM
07/05/06 09:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Perhaps they mean you can sail higher into the wind?


Jake Kohl
Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: Jake] #79114
07/05/06 09:20 AM
07/05/06 09:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
veteran

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
'xactly


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: Jake] #79115
07/05/06 02:42 PM
07/05/06 02:42 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 96
Budapest, Hungary, Europe
CatSailingHu Offline OP
journeyman
CatSailingHu  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 96
Budapest, Hungary, Europe
I also think it's mean "point higher" into the wind.

From the text:

"If you want to point higher for tactical
reasons the mast rotation must be slightly increased and the downhaul has to be eased a bit."

But, I have a feeling, if I increase the mast rotation, I will point lower. Is my feeling wrong ?

thans for the help,

Sanyi

ps: I'm sailing a Nacra F18, not a Capricorn, but I think it is independent from the boat.


Sanyi
Nacra Infusion
www.catsailing.hu
Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: CatSailingHu] #79116
07/05/06 04:10 PM
07/05/06 04:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 443
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
bobcat Offline
addict
bobcat  Offline
addict

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 443
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
No, I think that they are trying to make the point that it is different from your boat. I suspect that the mast is bendier and therefore tunes differently. Also, as they explain, the sail is cut differently from conventional.
I know that experience has shown the F16 sailors (with a wing section mast) that it is necessary to de-rotate to de-power.

Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: bobcat] #79117
07/05/06 04:42 PM
07/05/06 04:42 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
bobcat has it right. Unless you're on an infusion, do not use the capricorn mast tuning guides.

Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: MauganN20] #79118
07/05/06 06:56 PM
07/05/06 06:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
still, though - it gives you something to consider and try.


Jake Kohl
Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: CatSailingHu] #79119
07/05/06 08:02 PM
07/05/06 08:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
Acat230 Offline
enthusiast
Acat230  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
As you rotate aft (decrease rotation), you bend the mast more along its major (long) axis with increasing sheet tension. This tends to do a couple of things.

1. It decreases leech twist.
2. It flattens the sail more evenly top to bottom because the mast is bending more evenly top to bottom.
3. It provides a better shape for speed especially in flat water.

Keep in mind that as you sheet tighter with the rotation more aft, you need to pull on more downhaul to keep the draft of the sail from moving too far aft and to help open up the top of sail. This will depower the top of the sail first where it should be depowered. Most crews want the top of the sail to "go away" in typically over 14 knots of wind.


As you rotate forward (increase mast rotation), you bend the mast more along its minor (short) axis with increasing sheet tension. This tends to do a couple of things.

1. It bends the mast more at the top than in the mid to lower sections.
2. It flattens the sail more at the top and keeps it fuller in the lower to mid sections.
3. It provides a better shape for power especially in chop.

Easing the downhaul will keep the draft in the right position and keep the top of the sail from getting too open. A typical scenario might have you 50-100 yards from the weather mark and just barely fetching. Try rotating forward 5-10 degrees and ease off the downhaul about 1/2". It'll feel like downshifting into a lower gear.

If you are sailing upwind and the wind shifts to where you are going more into the waves on one tack and more across the waves on the other tack, the rotator can be a powerful tool as you can rotate more aft on the tack going across the waves because there is less resistance and rotate more forward on the other tack to power the boat through the waves coming more direct on your bow.

Fun stuff.

Bob Hodges
A-Class USA 230

Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: Acat230] #79120
07/06/06 04:54 AM
07/06/06 04:54 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 96
Budapest, Hungary, Europe
CatSailingHu Offline OP
journeyman
CatSailingHu  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 96
Budapest, Hungary, Europe
Thanks to everyone to thinking with me and help. I will try some setup soon.

What I can imagine, if I setup the main for the more power and lower speed (more rotation and less downhaul), than

- there will be a bigger power on the main
- there will be the same power on the jib (or less, because of lower speed)

It’s all mean; the total force on the sails will move backwards, consequently --> the boat will point higher.

Maybe.

??

I will really test it.

Sanyi


Sanyi
Nacra Infusion
www.catsailing.hu
Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: Acat230] #79121
07/06/06 08:39 AM
07/06/06 08:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
Thanks Bob for taking the time to explain this and give some examples.

It's sort of interesting, your response is very similiar to a guide written in the 1960's by Reg White.

Re: More mast rotation and height [Re: carlbohannon] #79122
07/06/06 08:05 PM
07/06/06 08:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 49
M
Mark L Offline
newbie
Mark L  Offline
newbie
M

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 49
Left out of this discussion is the effect of
draft position to pointing angle. The further forward
the draft, the less high you can point. Easing
the downhaul allows the draft to move aft.


Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

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