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Comments on the proposed Tybee race -



The intent of the proposed Tybee race is towards another major distance racing event comparable to the Worrell 1000, but open to more participants on a variety of 18 and 20-ft boats as stated.



The problem with current thinking has been from the glass if half empty and the rest is evaporating quickly brigade attempting to relegate all events as though they were local races with few boats.

Attempting to apply this to a proposed major event is very limiting in scope and vision long term and condemning all to the imperfections and inequities of rated racing intended for use when class racing is not available to decide the outcome as opposed to which team crossed the line first on reasonably equal boats. The vast majority of catsailors prefer racing either One design or Formula.

New interesting events like the proposed Tybee race provide the opportunity for new teams to form. There are thousands of catsailors that would like to become more active racing, numerous potential racers from other existing classes, and invites more international competition with the draw of sponsors, prize money, and media reporting. -Major media like Sports Illustrated, extensive web coverage, and potential again for televised sports coverage helps provide the exposure and fuel this growth in interest and participation.

Why relegate any new major event to limited thinking treating it as though it was a local club race. Local club racing is great but understand the difference of intent, level of competition in major championship events, and potential for numbers of entrants’ long term.





Point 2- -restriction to O D or rated racing -

One Design is too limited in potential numbers of entrants , and restricting current rated racing as others would propose for this event is not viable for a number of reasons. In attempting to limit or restrict rated type racing fairly to similar length, beam weight and sail area inc. spin.and you logically arrive at a Formula Class solution as the best option.

- F-18 s allow Tigers -N-F18, -Mysteres and others to compete, -F-16s and 18 hts are a great option/ addition to the original proposal, -F-20, -will have a web site up soon and will potentially include all current 8.5 beam 20s within the scope of class rules.

Race Formula Classes as a true test of sailing, navigational, boat prep, tactical, and seamanship racing skill in major distance racing events.

Add an open rated unlimited class if interest is there. Maybe we would see giant shutes, 12 beams, and 10 ft racks again, -great fun but a different type of racing having more to do with design development as was the Worrell / World 1000 race in the late 80s.



Point number five.



Rated racing --set a proposal and send it to race organizers for this class, -if some want it restricted explain who you are excluding, how and why beyond an abstract chosen number .Why shouldn’t it be open, then what are you going to limit, sail area beam racks shutes etc.

Rated racing is set up to rate class boats using av times applied for buoys racing .This breaks down even further when attempting to apply it to highly modified boats for distance racing ,--a different game .



: Third, -Media and sponsors -



It is wonderful to have the option of team sponsorship, -most all really enjoy the coverage of races, particularly here on Catsailor.





: Fourth point Safety.

Right, -read W-1000 rules, -check the web site, -

A similar set of rules would be used including req.safety equipment and team qualifications.



: Point seven. COST.

Given the wide variety of boats available believe a number of charter boats would be available through dealer involvement along with parts supply during the event and from numerous individual boat owners forming teams.

motor homes, group rates help, organizing dinners etc. for teams also helps tremendously. Know the race organizers are working on this aspect.

A sponsor from a local restaurant or biz even partially is also a big help for any team.

: Point eight

A well executed 2-day distance race takes 60-100 hours of legwork on the part of the organizers to do a good job. A 7-day version is a huge amount of work. I am grateful Chuck is even attempting it, and look forward to racing in it.

-Agree well stated last paragraph -



My experience in catsailing began like many in Hobies, 18s for more than a decade in the 70s and 80s, -we sometimes had 300 plus boats show at regional championship regattas in the Midwest at places like Traverse City MI, -GREAT TIMES, spectacular view of 300 + colored sails filling the bay, hard to even imagine now, -H -div 10 has all but disappeared, Attended numerous National and World championship events around the country, spent some time in Hawaii also sailing every day there as well as living in FLA and again have raced over the years in numerous geographic locations .

Raced on then brand new H-21s with Shutes also new to catsailing in 88 in Prosail and the Ultimate Yacht Race in numerous events around the country, some events seen on NBC Sports, -great fun that year, -also raced the Worrell 1000 the previous year in 87.

-Competed in my 6th Worrell 1000 this year, have raced the last five in a row. --whew !-and hope to race more this year and both the Worrell and Tybee race next year.



Realize my experiences and resulting vision for events and the sport are not the experiences of many now.

Many only know small local events with a group of diversely different boats where rated racing is the only option, or only know mfg. One design, along with all the pragmatic problems associated with organizing events that form their experience and resulting opinion. Also understand many have invested a great amount and enjoy smaller local club type racing , will prefer racing on that level and not care to participate in larger events , that is fine .-They need to realize the sport is capable of so much more and that many other catsailors will prefer to go on to racing in larger major events, at least the opportunity to do so should be available . We need to organize and provide more great events like the Tybee race along with Formula classes now finally getting organized in N A as the vehicles for these events that include a broad base of builders, and wide variety of sailors to grow the sport again, --seems we are well on our way! . .





Carl









lease excuse any typos -often do not wear my reading glasses and this type is small -

thanks

GOOD POSTS all-



Don’t know if we solve the cat sailing world's problems here, -but it is fun trying.



Kirt supplied a good history of categorizing cat design by basic L B W SA specs, -basic measurements first established in A B C D classes originally in effect loosely defined developmental Formula type classes. , and good definition of O D -development -and Formula, Think you have a good grasp on it Kirt .

--Yes, they are just similar class variations each individual class, Formula Class, development class each on their own theme with varying degrees of limitation on design development within defined establish basic specifications and similar measurements.



Interesting to note the difference even between the iF 18 rules and the N A F-18 rules which have a much tighter restriction on sails, having to conform to a basic pattern and be made and available only through accepted approved mfg., not open to all sailmakers or various shapes within a sq. ft limitation like most other F or dev classes like A s.



A key in developing fast designs is as most good A Class catsailors will tell you is matching the sail -mast charicteristics to weight and having flexability through a wide range of conditions from flat to full along with sail controls.

-Check out the Elliot main on the new N-F-18s, --really good looking in the new material. {At C F 3 in Aug}--This is the best aspect of Formula type racing -competition between builders driving them to make BETTER boats. The Tiger would not be the refined excellent design it is without this, and the numerous dev changes it has evolved through, It will continue to improve in every way imaginable as on all Formula boats and classes, -



Building on established classes and encouraging new Formula classes is the best way to revitalize the sport.

Hobie really built large numbers in the sport through the 70s and 80s and historically provides great racing . Most purchase an H brand to race in a class because that is most catsailors preference. Really believe it alienates H catsailors from participating in other events when class racing is not provided, they do not attend and do not return, much like others who are placed in separate rating classes with dis similar boats. . This does not help promote the sport in either direction ,but serves to seperate catsailors .. It is simply a matter of preference and degree of difference and often-practical application.

I understand it is quite frustrating to many that experience only small numbers showing at race events of diverse design where rated type racing is the only option . Also to thiose that invest their time and energies to develop rated racing rules.

But residing all catsailing to this type of scenario is not the answer .We must look to what historically has been successful how things have eloved and changed and what models are currently proving to work and why.-Then logically work towards and help those strive rather than retard and discourage their formation , growth, and development .



In the I-20 class there are 3 jib versions, 3 spin versions the latest being much improved, variations in boat weight, board and rudder materials have changed from early models, there are differences in mast flex. and stiffness, -now self-tacking jib kits and variations in hardware spin and sail control leads to name a few . --This occurs with most all supposed brand one design classes, they develop, -but are certainly not O D but would label them brand development. Many would rather have this option of boat development in their own hands thus the reason for more open Dev. and Formula Classes providing more options and better choices and better boats through direct competition for catsailors.



Blaming H or any mfg. for decline in the sport is not realistic. Hopefully H and all will realize that by producing better boats like the Tiger and hopefully an improved 20 ftr and by promoting the sport and helping it grow in interesting attractive Formula type class racing as has been successful in Europe is a much more viable marketing strategy than isolated smaller brand class racing that have been in decline.

The market share would be much larger in a growing active racing continental environment than to continue H-centric policy in declining numbers, again especially considering the EurO. market existing proven model.



A note on rated racing here, --it only functions or works secondarily to good healthy class racing which rating numbers are based on, --class specifications,

- Now realize these large performance variations and differences between boats in class or supposed brand one design class mentioned above and in other posts on the Tiger and other boats . O k, -now look at the even larger variation allowed in ratings in ranking classes overlooked in spin sizes, mainsail sizes, all types of modification, {covered by one blanket mod factor only} through those large varables and differences additionally not accounting for any variable factors previously noted and one begins to realize how inaccurate it is for anything but an interesting way to average diverse boat designs with these numerous unaccounted for variables in speed. Rated racing is intended for use in smaller diverse groups of boats for fun club racing, not applied to major distance races or large events. It is a matter of practical application for many other reasons as well.



Attracting sponsors for major events and boat builder mfg. and boat dealer support is better accomplished in class racing that really helps promote the sport. Lets be realistic, a monetary basis is required in all endeavors to be viable, even charitable or volunteer type organizations, -funds are still needed, fund-raisers raffles charity auctions etc.-The sport of catsailing is no different.

Sailors need to purchase sails boat gear and equipment and builders need to sell them. Sponsors help with event and even team expenses in some instances and special events. Most great sailing clubs -fleets and events have a great boat dealer and or builder as an integral part to support them again best accomplished in class racing where there is a direct interest in race results on an equal boat Vs boat basis. -It is also much more interesting and easily understood to the general public --being perceived as fair sport, -again attracting spectators and sponsors for events and new people involved and into the sport.

Also it is very unlikely that catsailors who purchase a boat to race in a class as most all intend to do, such as large sometimes separate H class HISTORICALLY PROVIDING GREAT CLASS RACING will embrace the notion of rated racing, but as we begin to see in Formula the ability for most to readily accept this type of more inclusive class racing in larger numbers.

Rated racing is needed and is fun but not where the real action is in racing as per example used in the Olympics , regional class championships , National or Continental championships , Worlds such as As in N E this Aug. -Worrell 1000 or proposed Tybee Island race should ever be , and all races where true test of sailing skill on reasonabley similar boats with the option of making them equal to provide fair equal boat vs boat racing is the priority.

Most will accept rated racing in this proper secondary role when race organizers wish to include it with class racing and certainly not at the exclusion of any new class trying to form or class racing when ever possible and available.



There seems to be great designs and support for the existing Formula Classes which will inevitably lead to their growing numbers, active class racing, and hopefully more interesting and exciting major regattas and distance racing events in N A.



Lets define these classes so all is readily understood and help promote them in every way possible.

Carl