| two Waves, two speeds #81255 07/29/06 08:29 AM 07/29/06 08:29 AM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 9 tome OP
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Posts: 9 | Hi, I have a Wave in Good Harbor Bay, Lake Michigan and absolutely love it. This is my second year with the boat. I have sailed various small boats in the years before owning the Wave, but certainly still have much to learn about sailing and handling the Wave. The boat is so much fun and quite stable in the (often) high wind/wave conditions here. Anyway, enough promoting....
My neighbor also has a Wave identically rigged as mine. We sometimes sail together. His boat seems to be faster then mine, or his technique is just better, I am not sure which. We haven't tried to switch boats yet to see if it is the boat or the captain but will do that one of these days. He is a much more experienced sailor having spent his childhood on racing yachts. But I have spent quite a bit of time following him and essentially mimicing his sail position, position on the boat, etc., as well as experimenting with my own to gain speed. He consistantly pulls away from me no matter the conditions or techniques I use. We both have spent time trying to figure out why and don't really have an explanation for it, other then out weight. I am 250lbs, he is probably 170. Could this alone account for the difference?
What techniques do people use (in terms of boat rigging) to gain speed?
In terms of my sailing technique, in light air, I tend to sit forward and heavy air sit back which seems to help some. I have even tried to sit on the leward hull to see if being on one would speed me up enough to catch the other boat. It helped some but not enough to make up the speed difference. Any other ideas?
Thanks, -Tom | | | Re: two Waves, two speeds
[Re: tome]
#81256 07/29/06 11:01 AM 07/29/06 11:01 AM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 15 Seattle wash MOE
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Posts: 15 Seattle wash | I think its the weight but as the wind builds it should make less of a difference.
another sailor
| | | Re: two Waves, two speeds
[Re: MOE]
#81257 07/29/06 02:24 PM 07/29/06 02:24 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | I understand your pain. But, it's not the weight. Rick consistently wins in the Wave Class, even though he usually weighs 50 to 100 pounds more than his competitors.
And, even if you give that he gets better starts and has better tactics and better tacks and jibes....even on a straight-line course, he still seems to pull away.
It's very annoying. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: two Waves, two speeds
[Re: Mary]
#81258 07/30/06 08:48 AM 07/30/06 08:48 AM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 9 tome OP
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Posts: 9 | I understand your pain. But, it's not the weight. Rick consistently wins in the Wave Class, even though he usually weighs 50 to 100 pounds more than his competitors.
And, even if you give that he gets better starts and has better tactics and better tacks and jibes....even on a straight-line course, he still seems to pull away.
It's very annoying. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> So if it isn't the weight then what physical characteristic of the boat makes it faster? I am sure that in racing technique is everything and makes all the difference in the world. But in this case it isn't technique because we have tried to trim the boats identically.... -Tom | | | Re: two Waves, two speeds
[Re: tome]
#81259 07/30/06 11:33 AM 07/30/06 11:33 AM |
Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... RickWhite 
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Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... | The Wave is very simple and requires only slight tuning. The rest is to simply fix the loose nut on tiller. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
First, there are no daggerboards.., just the skegs. So, the idea is to rake your mast back to load up the rudders, thereby making them your daggerboards. I use a 10 hole adjuster for the forestay and took off the shroud adjuster altogether and replace them with small shackles. Even then there is quite a bit of slop in the shrouds. The slop seems necessary when sailing off the wind -- when the sail goes out the slackened sidestay allows the sail to maintain its shape.
After that it is all about having good starts, good tacks, good mark roundings, always knowing if you are sailing on a lift or header, good tactics, etc. (all of which you can find in my books and my videos -- sorry a little commercial break there <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />)
The reason I seem to pull away from people is basically my technique. I mark my mainsheet so I always know that I am sheeting in to the fastest position. Nobody else in our fleet does that. So, when they sheet in they may be close to where they were when they did well, but are usually not at the same spot. I have markings for light air, moderate air and heavy air. And I constantly use them.
These are just a few things. But, feel of the waves, feel of the boat speed -- all are part of it. A good drill I do in my sailing seminars is the "Eyes Closed Drill." Just set your sails to your best setting and then try to sail with your eyes closed and keep the speed and pointing ability. Feel for the boat is important. This also allows you to get your head out of the boat to look for windshifts and see what your opponents are doing.., are they on a header, a lift, or whatever?
Best Bet, come to our Wave Only Sailing Seminar just before the Nationals.., and then sail the Nationals. Nothing will make you faster than doing both.
Good luck, Rick | | | Re: two Waves, two speeds
[Re: RickWhite]
#81260 07/31/06 11:29 AM 07/31/06 11:29 AM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 9 tome OP
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Posts: 9 | The Wave is very simple and requires only slight tuning. The rest is to simply fix the loose nut on tiller. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That's for sure! :-) First, there are no daggerboards.., just the skegs. So, the idea is to rake your mast back to load up the rudders, thereby making them your daggerboards. I use a 10 hole adjuster for the forestay and took off the shroud adjuster altogether and replace them with small shackles. Even then there is quite a bit of slop in the shrouds. Oh yes, you mentioned this in another post I made. I will make this adjustment and see how it helps. The slop seems necessary when sailing off the wind -- when the sail goes out the slackened sidestay allows the sail to maintain its shape.
After that it is all about having good starts, good tacks, good mark roundings, always knowing if you are sailing on a lift or header, good tactics, etc. (all of which you can find in my books and my videos -- sorry a little commercial break there <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />)
The reason I seem to pull away from people is basically my technique. I mark my mainsheet so I always know that I am sheeting in to the fastest position. Nobody else in our fleet does that. So, when they sheet in they may be close to where they were when they did well, but are usually not at the same spot. I have markings for light air, moderate air and heavy air. And I constantly use them. How do you mark it specifically? Also, the marks would only be good for a specific wind/boat direction wouldn't they? Don't they change depending on where you are heading and where the wind is blowing from? These are just a few things. But, feel of the waves, feel of the boat speed -- all are part of it. A good drill I do in my sailing seminars is the "Eyes Closed Drill." Just set your sails to your best setting and then try to sail with your eyes closed and keep the speed and pointing ability. Feel for the boat is important. This also allows you to get your head out of the boat to look for windshifts and see what your opponents are doing.., are they on a header, a lift, or whatever?
Best Bet, come to our Wave Only Sailing Seminar just before the Nationals.., and then sail the Nationals. Nothing will make you faster than doing both.
Good luck, Rick Thanks for the advice. Where are the Nationals? I doubt I will get there, but you never know.... -Tom | | | Re: two Waves, two speeds
[Re: tome]
#81261 08/05/06 06:36 AM 08/05/06 06:36 AM |
Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... RickWhite 
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... | Once I find good relative boat speed to other boats I mark the sheets. Say I did this in 12 mph winds. So, in winds of that speed I pretty much know where to set the sail. However, say the wind diminishes to around 5. Then I ease the main sheetand note where my mark is. If the wind increases, I sheet in tighter and again note were the mark is. It is not an exact science, but it is better than guessing each time you sheet in. Rick | | | Re: two Waves, two speeds
[Re: warbird]
#81263 07/11/07 07:58 PM 07/11/07 07:58 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 9 tome OP
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Posts: 9 | Get your own state of mind. You are following him. Trust what you read and keep trying to do that and not just what he is doing. Once you are behind him he is fast because you are in disturbed wind and unless you sail your own race you are doomed. He is subtly destroying your confidence and stroking his ego. Here are two things that will make you much faster. Stay very quiet on your boat, move the rudders less and most importantly when you are behind him move off his rear end. Also. Think a long way ahead. Do not react on the boat. Predict and make quiet moves to create what you see in your mind to be fast. When that turns out to be slow think through why and make notes not to repeat slow behaviour. Also, he knows you so do not do what you always do. When you might usually tack to floow do not. Stay on course for even only ten seconds more first. Start to play on his mind. It won't happen overnight but it will happen. Thanks for the advice. If we race (as opposed to just tool around) I will take you up on your suggestions. For now, we are just playing. It isn't about head games or my confidence, in fact I am often in front when he just moves beside me and goes ahead. Next time we sail (hopefully in the next couple days) I am going to trade boats and see what happens. -Tom | | |
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