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Fiberglass Repair #81605
08/02/06 03:05 PM
08/02/06 03:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 28
royaluser Offline OP
newbie
royaluser  Offline OP
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Posts: 28
Greetings,

I need some "how to" advice. I have a SC-17 with a very thin two inch crack in a hull. When I push on the crack, the hull gives a little more than other areas. The crack is located on the inner face of the hull, four inches infront of the forward beam and six inches down from the top on the hull. I do not know if the crack penetrates all the way through the fiberglass. The previous owner painted the hulls with Dupont Imron.

If I were to repair the crack back to its original strength, what do I need to do? The SC-17 does not have any inspection ports.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: royaluser] #81606
08/02/06 04:28 PM
08/02/06 04:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
I would really like to see a picture before you were to start doing what I detail below / and or take advice from someone local. I'm sure I have posted this on here before.

Quote
Be vicious with it !

1, clean out all cracked gelcoat; remove all the fibers that look like they have dirt/grime in them; remove any soggy glass matt (it probably won't really dry properly). Basically remove all the old/damaged areas and make sure you have a clean area to repair. This could mean removing some of the Keel line and having a "Slot" down the middle of the boat.

2, Make sure everything is clean and dry - VERY VERY important - you can use an Acetone to really clean it and a hair dryer to make sure it is dry

3, If you have an empty slot (if not go to 8) you need to build a backing plate (Thin Balsa can be good for this and then put some string thru it so you can pull it snug to the INSIDE of the hulls by putting your mold thru the slot you have made by cleaning out the old/damaged area and then pulling back snug (this is where the second pair of hands becomes useful !

4, While someone holds the string (and so mold) snug to the inside of the hull, apply glass mat and gellcoat to the hole/slot you have made; Ideally you want to get at least one layer of mat on the inside of the hull - Tip:
Stick the Matt (and gelcoat) to the balsa/cardboard; then put the sting thru and then put this inside the hull and pull it back so the matt sticks to the hull inside. Now while "String pulling mate" holds the string you need to gaffa tape the sides of the hull into the right position so that then the matt sticks it will hold the hull in the correct shape.


5 Let this cure; you now should have a hole that you can fill up and return the hull to the right shape

6, At this point depending on the side of the void left :

7 Big void - long or wide; I would fill this with gelcoat mixed with chopped strand mat (very hard when it goes off) and then move onto 8.

8 small - Just use filler

9 Top tip 2; when you are getting close to the correct level/shape of the hull; use "grease proof" cooking paper as a outside skin as this will allow you to get a good finish before you need to start standing

10 once you have filled the hole(s) up you need to sand back to the right level; use 400;600 and 1000 wet and dry and then polish if required


So you will need

Acetone (check which one) - some melt gelcoat
Gelcoat of the appropriate colour
Glass mat (depending on the scale of the repair)
Mixing pots for gelcoat - paper are best; just throw away after Mixing sticks - I use wooden sticks you get for coffee at Starbucks and the like - might need a spatula for gelcoat when mixed with chopped strand glass.

That's about it.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: royaluser] #81607
08/02/06 05:04 PM
08/02/06 05:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Greetings,

I need some "how to" advice. I have a SC-17 with a very thin two inch crack in a hull. When I push on the crack, the hull gives a little more than other areas. The crack is located on the inner face of the hull, four inches infront of the forward beam and six inches down from the top on the hull. I do not know if the crack penetrates all the way through the fiberglass. The previous owner painted the hulls with Dupont Imron.

If I were to repair the crack back to its original strength, what do I need to do? The SC-17 does not have any inspection ports.


I agree with Scoob. We really need to see photos to understand the structural nature of the crack. I did a crack repair on a mildly-critical part of my F18 recently...it's documented at teamseacats in "boat construction" ... unfortunately it's in reverse chronilogical order.

[Linked Image]


Jake Kohl
Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: Jake] #81608
08/02/06 07:45 PM
08/02/06 07:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
old hand
warbird  Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
nice advice.. Do not try to be cute or keep he work area minimal. you want it repaired and you will be surprised how you can put these things right. esp keep dry work site! I will use the chopped mat idea myself.. thanks.

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: warbird] #81609
08/02/06 09:03 PM
08/02/06 09:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 28
royaluser Offline OP
newbie
royaluser  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 28
Thanks for the advise. I do not have a digital camera. I still use 35 mm film (old school). The former owners failed to tell me about the crack and some other defects. I discovered the crack only after I thoroughly cleaned and polished the hulls. I plan to sail the SC-17 for the first this weekend.

The crack width is very small. It looks like one of the spider cracks (jagged line) off the main crack in Jake's picture. It is slightly raised compared to the rest of hull and when I push on it with my thumb, it compresses more easily than the rest of the hull. If the crack were not a darker color and slightly raised, it would not be noticed.

Based on that information, do you still recommend to be aggressive or should I watch and wait to see if the crack enlarges with use?

The procedure: Sand the hull down to the fiberglass; pierce the hull in a slotted fashion following the small crack; clean and dry the sanded area and the inside of the hull adjacent to the slot; apply West system epoxy and fiberglass to the balsa wood and insert it into the slot held tightly by a string (fishing line?) or two; after curing, fill the slot with an epoxy fiberglass mix; put additional layers of fiberglass and epoxy on the outside; sand and paint.

What tools (e.g. drill, jig saw, hand saw, router or Dremel tool) are used to pierce or cut the hull in a slotted shape? What thickness of balsa wood is recommended to apply to a slightly rounded area in the hull? Where is balsa wood sold (e.g. hobby shop)? What size (e.g. length and width) slot should be cut to repair a two inch long crack?

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: royaluser] #81610
08/02/06 09:27 PM
08/02/06 09:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Since the fiberglass / crack moves when you press on it, it's a pretty good indication of something that, at least, will become a major issue at some point. Depending on what structure is behind that area (I can't imagine there is anything at that exact point), you can probably just do what I did with my cracked seam...grind away the glass until the fiberglass is paper thin at the crack and then taper it outward. Then fiberglass in that starting with thinner strips and working out to the widest strip that covers the entire area (and then a little more). Sand / fair it, paint it gelcoat it, and you are done. If there is a bulkhead behind that area, repair will be more complicated....all this really depends on what caused the crack in the first place - if it's a construction or design problem, you need to do more than simply fix the crack.

That said - is the core of that boat balsa? If it is - you REALLY need to at lesat seal up that crack before (more) water penetrates and destroys a large section of the core. Since you can move it I would be concerned about water penetration.

Sorry to sound so gloom - we have to kind of assume worst case scenario since we can't see it.


Jake Kohl
Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: Jake] #81611
08/02/06 11:26 PM
08/02/06 11:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
My 1980 SC20 is a foam core (not sure what kind), very thin skins inside and out unless in a reinforced area.

Dave

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: davefarmer] #81612
08/03/06 12:57 AM
08/03/06 12:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
old hand
warbird  Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
if not pulling right back it may be a good idea to let evidure soak in as much as possible before glassing.
This would also force out any dampness in timber sections.

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: warbird] #81613
08/03/06 03:39 AM
08/03/06 03:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
enthusiast
jollyrodgers  Offline
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maui
you should sheet the main as tight as possible on land and see if the crack changes it's appearance.

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: jollyrodgers] #81614
08/03/06 07:03 AM
08/03/06 07:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
addict
Seeker  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Hey royaluser, I too have a Supercat 17, incredible little boat… the best thing you can do is go to http://aquarius-sail.com/default/
From there, go to the owners forum, then to the Technical Forum section. Post your problem in as much detail as possible. This is the forum hosted by the Builder of the Supercat and ARC catamarans. They know exactly what materials are in the boat, how they structurally work together, and how it needs to be repaired. Matt and Tom Haberman are very responsive…and don’t be surprised if the Supercat designer (Bill Roberts) doesn’t respond as well.

While you can get a lot of generic advice here on the Catsailor forum about repairing catamarans in general …a repair technique that has worked on a Hobie or Performance brand cat "may" not be satisfactory on your Supercat. The location of the crack you are talking about could become a very serious structural issue, and needs to be addressed before the boat is put into use.

You can get free expert repair advice right from the builder. Customer service is one of the many benefits of owning a Supercat/ARC catamaran. It doesn’t matter if you bought a new ARC catamaran last week or a 25 year old used Supercat from your local newspaper, they will support you with specific information and parts.


Personally (even with 39 years of experience in fiberglass/composites) I would not initiate any repair to my SC 17 before contacting Matt or Tom for their insight on the matter.
Each structure is different. …

Regards,
Bob

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: Seeker] #81615
08/03/06 07:08 AM
08/03/06 07:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Hey royaluser, I too have a Supercat 17, incredible little boat… the best thing you can do is go to http://aquarius-sail.com/default/
From there, go to the owners forum, then to the Technical Forum section. Post your problem in as much detail as possible. This is the forum hosted by the Builder of the Supercat and ARC catamarans. They know exactly what materials are in the boat, how they structurally work together, and how it needs to be repaired. Matt and Tom Haberman are very responsive…and don’t be surprised if the Supercat designer (Bill Roberts) doesn’t respond as well.

While you can get a lot of generic advice here on the Catsailor forum about repairing catamarans in general …a repair technique that has worked on a Hobie or Performance brand cat may not be satisfactory on your Supercat. The location of the crack you are talking about could become a very serious structural issue, and needs to be addressed before the boat is put into use.

When you can get free expert repair advice right from the builder why would you want to go anywhere else? Customer service is one of the many benefits of owning a Supercat/ARC catamaran. It doesn’t matter if you bought a new ARC catamaran last week or a 25 year old used Supercat from your local newspaper, they will support you with specific information and parts.


Personally (even with 39 years of experience in fiberglass/composites) I would not initiate any repair to my SC 17 before contacting Matt or Tom for their insight on the matter.
Each structure is different. …

Regards,
Bob


Man...that's damn near insulting. No doubt the manufacturer would be a great place to go - but you might as well have called me a "hack".


Jake Kohl
Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: Jake] #81616
08/03/06 07:12 AM
08/03/06 07:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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Seeker  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
How so Jake? It was not meant to be insulting at all...just send him where he can get specific information on his boat...

Regards,
Bob

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: Seeker] #81617
08/03/06 12:06 PM
08/03/06 12:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
How so Jake? It was not meant to be insulting at all...just send him where he can get specific information on his boat...

Regards,
Bob


I admit to quickly skimming the post - but you speak of Supercats like their construction is radically different and that we're not qualified to comment or work on it. It's fiberglass (or carbon), foam core, bulkheads, stringers, decks, and beams just like all the other cats - the only difference is the shape of the hulls and the internal reinforcements are in slightly different locations.

Again though, it may be a problem common to Supercat 17s so the manufacturer may already have experience with this exact repair so I agree that is a good resource. However, I wouldn't hesitate to roll up my sleeves and fix one just like I would any other catamaran and easily expect the outcome to be just as good.


Jake Kohl
Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: Jake] #81618
08/03/06 03:28 PM
08/03/06 03:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
Krikey, Jake! What the heck did you do to that F18? Was that due to some slick move you learned on tacticat?

That's a nasty scratch/crack....

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: waterbug_wpb] #81619
08/03/06 04:33 PM
08/03/06 04:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
enthusiast
jollyrodgers  Offline
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Posts: 307
maui
Mr. Seeker was just suggesting that the crack may be a known problem with a known fix. To me it wasn't an attack on Mr. Jake or Mr. ScoobySimon.

Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: waterbug_wpb] #81620
08/03/06 06:42 PM
08/03/06 06:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Krikey, Jake! What the heck did you do to that F18? Was that due to some slick move you learned on tacticat?

That's a nasty scratch/crack....


Sorry - I might have been a little overworked this morning....

All we did was pitchpole twice. The seam was a little thin where the two halves of the hull were joined - when I got through the gelcoat, there wasn't much meat in the joint. It's stronger than ever now though.


Jake Kohl
Re: Fiberglass Repair [Re: Jake] #81621
08/04/06 09:03 AM
08/04/06 09:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 28
royaluser Offline OP
newbie
royaluser  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 28
Hello All,

I appreciate the information. If the small two inch crack is a compression crack, how large an area should be repaired? Could the fiberglass lamination be split internally and not show on the outside of the hull?


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