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mast floats #81622
08/02/06 09:03 PM
08/02/06 09:03 PM
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grandpap Offline OP
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I have been sailing my TheMightyHobie18 forthe last 20 years and have turtled it several times over the years.My 65 year old body is suggesting a mast float to make life easier if I go turtle again. Has anyone tried fabricating a homemade float that would not look too stupid .If so .could you give a short explaination of how you did it?The floats in the catalog seem awfully pricey.

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Re: mast floats [Re: grandpap] #81623
08/03/06 06:42 AM
08/03/06 06:42 AM
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Boudicca Offline
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Neoprene may cost the same, I'm not sure. In any case you could make a float of it. Cut a piece wide enough to go around the mast less the track, and about 2-3 ft tall. Glue this to the mast top.

I suppose if you can't find neoprene that's rather thick, you could laminate several layers. Just guessing, I'd think you want something on the order of 1/2 inch thick, more or less

good luck with it
tami
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Re: mast floats [Re: Boudicca] #81624
08/03/06 06:52 AM
08/03/06 06:52 AM
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Atlanta
bvining Offline
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neoprene absorbs water and will add weight to the mast when you right the boat.

I'd go with a close cell foam, like a swim noodle.

Bill

Re: mast floats [Re: bvining] #81625
08/03/06 07:07 AM
08/03/06 07:07 AM
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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Two other options to a masthead float:

1: Have foam sewn into the top of your mainsail.
2: Hoist an inflatable float when there is enough wind that you feel in danger of capsizing. Several dinghys use these, and one of the RS Fevas at my club use it all the time.

Re: mast floats [Re: bvining] #81626
08/03/06 08:12 AM
08/03/06 08:12 AM
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Boudicca Offline
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Bill,

I do believe you are misinformed:
http://www.dupontelastomers.com/Products/Neoprene/neoprene.asp

Or else the weatherstripping industry is giving us all a real screwing.

Re: mast floats [Re: Boudicca] #81627
08/03/06 08:54 AM
08/03/06 08:54 AM
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srm Offline
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Agreed. I don't believe neoprene absorbs water, however, the fabric that is often bonded to it when used in wetsuits can absorb water.
There are probably lighter foams that could be used, 1/2" neoprene is going to get pretty heavy, but the flexibility of neoprene would be nice. I would also be concerned about weather/UV degredation.

sm

Re: mast floats [Re: srm] #81628
08/03/06 08:55 AM
08/03/06 08:55 AM

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I would consider a gallon milk jug (or something more durable like a detergent bottle). Tie it to your mainsail head when you are solo and the wind is high. Cost… free. Obviously, the increased tip weight makes it harder to right and more likely to go over.

Matt

Re: mast floats [Re: ] #81629
08/03/06 08:59 AM
08/03/06 08:59 AM

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And make sure your mast is sealed. It has to be 100% water proof. I intentionally turtled my boat with a sealed mast and went to the aft leeward corner and the boat came right up to its side. Any water even a very small about will make it very difficult to right.

You can test the mast by dunking it in the water and looking for bubbles to flow out.

Matt

Re: mast floats [Re: ] #81630
08/03/06 10:45 AM
08/03/06 10:45 AM
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Posts: 302
Raleigh/ Wrightsville Beach NC
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My Tiger Mast has a foam core inside it, so you don't have to be too concerned about if it is sealed. This got me thinking about my H16. I bet you could remove the mast head cap and use some of the spray foam that you buy at your local hardware store for insulating cracks. You may need to attach a small hose to the spray nozzle to get it deeper down the mast. I would still seal the mast end cap with silicone, but the foam may provide more bouyancy for the mast. We need to get Myth Busters to prove this theory.


Mark Williams
F18 H16
http://emsa-sailing.org
Re: mast floats [Re: MarkW_F18] #81631
08/03/06 12:01 PM
08/03/06 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
My Tiger Mast has a foam core inside it, so you don't have to be too concerned about if it is sealed. This got me thinking about my H16. I bet you could remove the mast head cap and use some of the spray foam that you buy at your local hardware store for insulating cracks. You may need to attach a small hose to the spray nozzle to get it deeper down the mast. I would still seal the mast end cap with silicone, but the foam may provide more bouyancy for the mast. We need to get Myth Busters to prove this theory.


I would be concerned that the foam will eventually absorb water and will be impossible to remove. Mark, isn't the foam in the Tiger mast just a plug at the top and bottom?


Jake Kohl
Re: mast floats [Re: Jake] #81632
08/03/06 12:51 PM
08/03/06 12:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Raleigh/ Wrightsville Beach NC
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It could be... I was thinking it was pretty thick.

So far as the spray foam goes, I wonder if it breaks down over time. I would think that the inside of a metal mast would get pretty hot. We may need the Myth Busters to check it out.


Mark Williams
F18 H16
http://emsa-sailing.org
Re: mast floats [Re: MarkW_F18] #81633
08/03/06 01:00 PM
08/03/06 01:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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The only neoprene I'm familiar with is the stuff that wetsuits are made out of....and that will absorb water.

Re: mast floats [Re: bvining] #81634
08/03/06 01:25 PM
08/03/06 01:25 PM
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Boudicca Offline
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Bill,

Not trying to get the last word in here, but it's misleading to indicate that neoprene absorbs water, and we're trying to give good information, aren't we?

If neoprene absorbed water, wetsuits wouldn't work. The principle involved is that although a layer of water gets between you and the wetsuit, the wetsuit PREVENTS exchange between that layer and the ambient water around you. The layer of water next to you is warm, thus keeping you warm. Plus, the air trapped within the neoprene foam is also insulative. Last I checked, air generally floats...

If wetsuits absorbed water, then divers who normally don't have to wear weights, still wouldn't have to wear weights when they put on wetsuits, and they do. Ask any diver.

Like the fella said earlier, the cloth laminated to some wetsuits absorbs water (geez, how much could that possibly be), but no, the wetsuit itself doesn't.

I promise.

I've even consulted a couple of mechanical engineers on it, so you don't have to take my word.

If your wetsuit absorbs water, then you need to send it back or it's really old and it ain't working anymore. But in my observation, really old neoprene just gets crumbly.

sea ya
tami
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Re: mast floats [Re: bvining] #81635
08/03/06 01:38 PM
08/03/06 01:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
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We get this question from time to time about increasing the flotation by filling with foam...

Hobie masts are only capped (sealed) with foam. Foam has a weight of about 2 lb per sq foot (depending on the foam), so filling a mast or hulls would add weight by displacing the air. Foam also absorbs or can trap moisture further adding weight.

Filling a fixed volume object with foam does not make it float better. The object (when sealed properly) has a flotation based on its volume (displacement) and weight combined. When the volume is filled with air, that is the most flotation you will get. You can only increase the flotation by increasing the volume / displacement (larger sealed space).

The next critical aspect is the location of that flotation volume. The further up the mast, the sooner the flotation volume is engaged when capsized. The Hobie floats are the best scenario. They position the flotation at the tip of the mast. They offer very little windage (smaller than a single human head, but more aerodynamic) and do not disturb the airflow over the sail or the sail shape.

Adding foam to the sail causes windage and sail shape issues diminishing the sails performance. Same with foam around the mast top. Both of these ideas also allow the boat to go much further over before that flotation is engaged.

Any floatation added to the mast top will also be added weight, so expect righting to require some additional weight / effort.


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Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: mast floats [Re: mmiller] #81636
08/03/06 02:28 PM
08/03/06 02:28 PM
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Neville Offline
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Also neoprene ripps, tears and most likely will turn into a ugly mess in no time. When trailering ect.

Re: mast floats [Re: Neville] #81637
08/03/06 03:51 PM
08/03/06 03:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Raleigh/ Wrightsville Beach NC
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Matt.. great explanation. Ah, I knew the Myth Busters could de-myth my theory. Now try this, if a Tiger were flying the spinaker and was traveling West at 24 knots were to colide bow to bow with a H16 traveling north and close hauled at 16 knots, which boat would incur the most damage. Ya'll try that one and let us know.


Mark Williams
F18 H16
http://emsa-sailing.org
Re: mast floats [Re: Boudicca] #81638
08/03/06 04:27 PM
08/03/06 04:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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 If neoprene absorbed water, wetsuits wouldn't work.  


Tami,
I own 8 wetsuits. I've surfed all my life. All my wetsuits absorb water.

They all get really heavy when they are wet and when I hang them to dry they seep water for hours...the water runs down the material and the legs and ankles are the last parts to dry.

Wetsuits work by trapping a layer of water next to your skin which your body heats up. The water isnt in the suit before you enter the water, it soaks in. It holds the water, in the suit, thats the point.

I'm not putting a big sponge on the top of my mast and dont think anyone else should.

A closed cell foam - think swim noodle - would be a much better solution.

If you dont believe me take a wetsuit - weigh it and then dunk it in water. Take is out - shake it off and then weigh it again. I'll be dramatically heavier, I promise.

Dont use neoprene for a mast float, it will absorb water.

I dont care what the engineers say, they are wrong. As far as your diver example, I agree, the rubber in the suit wants to float, but so does our body, so it doesnt prove your point.

Bill

Re: mast floats [Re: bvining] #81639
08/03/06 04:37 PM
08/03/06 04:37 PM
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Bay of Islands, NZ
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wetsuits, while having some floatation affect are not designed to float, they are designed to trap some water and as the body warms that water has an insulating affect on the body.
My Tiger Shark mast (twenty years old at least had the tip sealed with foam. Still in good order and mast well sealed.
oam in mast will not help your problem, you want more floatation not different floatation.
I know he idea of changing boats at this time might seem tired but a lighter platform might negate the need for a trainer bubble at all.

Re: mast floats [Re: warbird] #81640
08/03/06 04:59 PM
08/03/06 04:59 PM
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Posts: 192
WEST. MICH. USA
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Tie a couple of swim noodles between the headboard of the main & the second batten. Great for single handling or remove them for racing.

Re: mast floats [Re: DVL] #81641
08/03/06 05:43 PM
08/03/06 05:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Tiger vs. a 16 in a collision? The Tiger is way more fragile than a 16 (I own both).

16.

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