Hi All

The taipans have a plate inserted inside the mast as an attachment point for the downhaul, which I think is a 'Z' shape. Is it a true 'Z' shape, thats rivetted on the scribe line or an offset 'Z' that is rivetted off to side of the scribe line? (opposite side of scribe line at each end) Also would I be better to attach a double block to it or two single blocks?

Thanks

Matt

The plate is more like an I shape with two bits removed to create a straigh Z

It can be home made by just taking a strip of aluminium and bending the ends in opposite direction and to a 90 degree angle.

So each lip is riveted on different sides of the scribe line. One in front of it and one to the back of it.

I attached two single blocks to it. That was cheaper in my case, but a double block is just as good as far as I can determine. However this does mean you are either using a cascading downhaul of 12:1 (recommended) or only a simple conventional downhaul of 8:1 (not recommended)

An alternative to the z-plate is to use a single bolt that passes through the mast from side to side. This one is both simple and allows easy assembling/disassembling. Latter is especially attractive in case of mishaps or repairs. Some way to position the blocks to the bolt is adviced however. Advantages of Z plat are lightweight, cost and easy positioning of the blocks relative to eachother

I hope this helps.

Wouter

Thanks Wouter

Exactly the answer I was after, however I thought it would be made of a thin stainless steel. I also thought with two single blocks it would seperate the line a bit as well as being cheaper (and I have two singles in my kit).

Regards

Matt

The plate I bought of AHPC was just plain aluminium and it has held up fine ever since. I forgot the thickness, it could have been 2 mm. I don't think you need stainless steel and I don't think you don't want stainless.

2 single blocks are fine, I had two of them in my spare parts kit as well and so they were "cheap" , I haven't found a drawback in using these since. If anything two seperate blocks can set themselfs so they align themselfs properly with the loading which might be skewed.

For the first stage (taking thick line that you hold in your hand) I used a 15 year old SeaSure 30 mm block so the line would run more smoothly over it. Despite it being an unknown brand and of some age it has operated beautifully.

Not everything has to be Harken or some other high priced component. My filosophy is to use these high grade components where such is necessary and use cheaper ones where you can. It was really surprising how good some inexpensive blocks and fittings were/are.

SeaSure, Riley, RWO are three brands that come to mind.

Good luck

Wouter

Hi All

I was at AHPC on friday to pick up some bits and pieces, I was looking at their internal plates, the holes in them seemed huge, probably 10mm. What do they use to attach the blocks to the plates? It didn't annoy at the time, I was busy looking at other stuff. I'm thinking now if they are just shackled to the plate the holes would only need to be 6mm or so? I was taught to only make holes as big as you need to attach things.

Thanks

The plate is lighter with the big holes. Making big holes is often used in architectural beams to reduce weight without losing to much strength and stiffness.

The plate will hold, it is strong enough. Just put it inside your mast.

Wouter

Thanks Wouter

I was hoping to get back to the computer before anyone answered, because I found probably the real reason!

To get the eye of the shackle through the the hole!!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Sorry its sunday morning, late night last night, excuses..excuses..excuses. Sometimes I surprise myself how not learned I am. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well you don't need to put the eye through the hole, just the pin will suffice. That is how I have it but then I have used some special shackles for this setup. The eyes of the shackle bend towards eachother so that there is only 5 mm space between them while the loop itself is significantly larger then that.


But anyway you do it will be fine ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Wouter

Ah well, its done, internal downhaul fitted and finished. Made another stainless mast base today (found a couple of problems with first one, we'll put that down to R & D.

I don't know how many of you have tried it but, I consider myself to a capable welder, by no means pro, but when I weld something it holds on and does what it suppose to (for a while anyway). That was until I welded stainless steel with my little arc welder, I bought some rods ($30 for 15 rods Oz <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />) and the results were fantastic! The best welding I have ever done, and when I finished the slag just popped of by itself, and produced the neatest run of weld I could ever dream to do. Don't be scared, try it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. I will making myself alot of fittings from now on <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Regards

Matt, I read somewhere that welding stainless gave off a toxic gas. I think this was with TIG equipment, perhaps it is different with rods?
Anyway, pictures please? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />




I absultely agree. We have re-used a 25 years old alu cleat on our Tornado, where the new "plastic" cleats had a hard time taking the load.
Do you have any links to online stores in europe selling RWO, SeaSure, Riley or similar?

I usually weld outside, so thats got to be better than indoors I suppose, I've a table set up outside the shed at the moment, and tools such as the bench drill is a small handyman type, so its easy to carry out. If I haven't got something in particular, I've just got to walk down to the farms workshop, it has almost everything you need, mig welder, metal lathe, large pedestral drill, etc....

Hopefully there will be attached a photo of the Mast Base, it still needs the rotation arm to be fitted, but I haven't got the correct size tube here, and won't be near the supplier til next weekend. I found a stainless steel distributor about an hour from me, they have everything you could possibly want in stock, sheet, flat bar, tube, you name it. For example the striker strap for the cat, $35.00 as opposed to $100.00. The mast base (not taking into account labour of course) at this stage has cost $10.00, I would add another $10 for the rotator arm, as opposed to $135.00.

And another

Sounds like you are in an ideal location there Matt. The lathe would not happen to be a 3D CNC equipped one? You chould really make some cool stuff with one of those. The mast base looks good. What boat is it going on?
So many people start counting money when doing things themself, and end up not building anything as they can make more money by working an extra job or some overtime. Refreshing to see what you are turning out!

Welding gases are quite seriuous stuff. I did a welding class once, and the teachers was quite insistent on what we could weld and positioning of the ventilators.
Perhaps somebody on the forum knows more about welding stainless and what the risks are..

The reason I started playing around with making the things myself, is because my location isn't that ideal. I'm on a farm in the middle of nowhere, and no matter what you need everythings an hour away. Plus the owner of the farm amazes me with the things he makes and I think a bit of that has rubbed off on me, for most things we believe if someone else can make then so can we.

The lathe is probably best described as a farmers lathe, nothing fancy, old as the hills, we even mounted a washing machine motor on it the other day, because we couldn't get it to go slow enough for a particular job, and it worked!

Anyway shearing today, got to go.

Regards

Matt,
You've done a nice job on the base.
How thick is the plate and any idea how heavy it is?

Regards,
Phill

Gday Phill,

The base plate is 3mm, the raised section is 16mm high and made from 2mm. The first one I made had the raised section at 19mm, but found with there wasn't enough thread on the socket fitting to include the hinge. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

The weight, as it is in the picture is around about 300g, I would add another 120g for the cleats and wings and probably 200g for the rotation arm, I don't know how that compares with a standard base, swivel cleats, rotation arm???

ButI guess if you needed to add weight to your boat, there wouldn't be much better place.

And you can make it yourself from scratch! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm thinking hard about all the possibilities of things that can be made, mainsail hook, hounds, goosenecks, stay adjusters.....

Do the Blades use the StaMaster type adjusters, I see all the Taipans seem to have them for finer adjustment, is it really necessary do you think?

Regards

I'm not phill but I found that the best way to control tension in the rig is to have a turnbuckle on the forestay. Next best thing is a shifted overlap stay adjusted (or vernier adjuster). You can then get away with simple chainplates on the sidestays. The difference in mast rake while using the chainplates on the sidestays is not too large.

Although I have to say that my experience is based on a boat that has the sidestays at 700 mm from the mainbeam and not at 500 mm as the Taipans. So my rig will be noticeably less sensitive to side stay adjustments.

think min rake adjustment at mast top = mastheight/distance beam stay * min adjusting sidestay

Taipan => 8.5/0.5 * 0.015 = 0.255 mtr. swing of mast top
My boat => 8.5/0.7 * 0.015 = 0.182 mtr. swing of mast top

Additionally I use the vernier stay adjuster on my sidestays : See ronstan catalogue RF445. This is a chain plate system that allows adjustments in increaments of only 3 mm by using two strips with differently spaces holes. It should be very easy to make such a setup yourself.

I know that somebody just took a stainless steel tube and hammered it into an oval crosssection. Then he drilled equally spaced holes in it. This tube would then take a stainless steel strip with 2 or 3 holes spaced differently then the tube. This setup will work exactly the same as the vernier adjuster and allow much smaller adjustment then the spacing of the holes in the tube. The stay itself is attached to the top of the stainless strap.

For more detailed info go to :

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=71684&page=


But remember, according to some posters on this forum I'm just a crazy old no-nothing !

Wouter