i've read an old test (1,5 years old) of the capricorn in which they state that you cannot push a capricorn as hard as a nacra or tiger with the kite up. can anybody tell me if this is still the case? i've asked (the wrong source) a nacra distributor and he claims (of course) that the capricorns are very tricky downwind.

i'd rather hear from people who currently sail the capricorn what their opinion is.

please let me know your experiences since i want to decide which F18 will replace my current nacra F18 next season.

I haven't sailed a Nacra, but I went from a Tiger to the Capricorn about four months ago and I think you can push the Cap much harder downwind than you can the Tiger. Especially in choppy seas the bows go thru the waves really nice instead of slowing the boat down each time the bows stuff.

I'm a Cap owner. In the NAs in Illinois last month, I pitched twice, once on Tuesday and once on Friday. Both times it was as we turned down at the clearing mark - once as the chute was coming up, and once just after it filled and was sheeted in prepration for a gybe. Conditions were choppy and gusty 20s in both cases. I know that every other model boat flipped in the same races, including both Nacras and Tigers. In our flips, it was over in an instant - maybe could have saved it on a Nacra 20. Both times, I was at or near the front beam for the set - weight too far forward for an aggressive turn down, but the skipper is a 20-driver who was on the Cap for the first time. He really missed those N20 bows. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In any case - my experience so far is that the boat is no more prone to flipping than anything else I have ever been on, including the Infusion. To be fair, I have not been on an Infusion in the conditions described above, but very experienced sailors that had the new boat took a swim with me last month, so...

I'd be interested in seeing the "test" you describe. Can you post it here or post a link? I'd like to see if it is authentic or pure bunk or something in between. Anyone that was selling a boat in Illinois last month can tell you what my advice was on the beach - unless you have a three or four year old boat you'd normally be selling anyway, you should keep what you have and focus on sailing better, not hopscotch to the latest greatest. Look at Woody Cope - he had the first gen Nacra, end pole snuffer and the oldest set of sails on the course (4+ years on the jib and main?) and he was smoking everybody but the pros at one time or another. Does that mean we should all go to blown out dacron jibs? Or maybe he's paid some dues and makes good decisions, even when he's sailing out of class. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hi john & f180xj, thank you for your replies. regarding the test, i've attached it. it's from a UK magazine which is quite high quality. unfortunately they only have a small section on multihulls.

john it sounds like you've had a good time during the NA's!

I can't trust a review that has pictures with a main that has that many wrinkles :P

trust this one then!

www.nacraeurope.com/download.php?fileid=10

Tornado Alive recently stated in another thread in another forum (SA), that with the use of a transom foot strap and a chicken line he has never stuffed his Capricorn down wind, so they can't be that bad.

Yeah, from nacraeurope.com.

Good articles, both - thanks for linking.

On the Cap test, I guess I read it slightly diff than the way you did, iMax. You're conclusion was that the Cap can't be pushed as hard as a Nacra or a Tiger off the wind (the article actually says Tiger), but the telling line for me is this;



I guess with talk about pitching by F18s in general, it might leave one with the impression, since it was a review of the Cap specifically. I have not noted the "Achilles heel" the article indicated the Cap suffers on the start line - when I get up on the line, it holds position well and I haven't found myself in trouble yet... certainly not in any way related to the dagger boards as the reviewer states he has heard from sailors racing against the Cap. Where was the editor on that bit of "I heard someone say..."?

On the Nacra review, I was pleased to note many of the similarities in design between the Cap and the Infusion - gybing boards, cordage and fit out, mast, extra volume in the taller hulls, etc. I think these are the elements we'll continue to see developed in the forseeable.

VMG - on the Nacra review, what happened to the "Answer Back" section? Is this a draft, or is it published already?

Thanks again - good reading. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

hi john, i found the same article (on the infusion) with the answers back from nacra europe.

My understanding was that Capricorns no longer have Gybing boards. I was told that they were not as successful as hoped and had to much drag. They probably also contributed to the slow off the start performance of the early boats. With this in mind I was surprised to see them on the new Nacra.

John, You've got a brand new Cap. Does it have gybing boards?

This is what we saw at the North American F18 this year.
Misha said on the last day he drove is bows in two to three times on the last run down wind on Fri. (but didn't flip)
bare in mind that of the 23 boats that did go out friday only 5 managed to avoid going over. And I'm almost certain that of the 5 that didnt all three types of boats were included.
Some of the new Nacra Infusions had some problems.
some of which being, daggers not fitting into dagger well,requiring some filing to the dagger. Also a dagger blew while in use. On Fri someone on an Infusion running down wind had mast fold. And two of the Infusion had some minor collision and took on water.

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You can PP anything if you try hard enough. I've sailed with Capricorns since the first day they were launched and seen plenty of nose dives. Are they any better/worse than any other boat??? I don't think so.

IMHO the major reason why the winner is a Hobie/Cap/Infusion these days is the sailors ability and maybe 10 - 15% the boats being suited to the particular conditions of the day.

Tiger Mike

I agree, it is too easy to confuse sailors' abilities with boats' abilities.

Would have been great if Micha and Carrie would have sailed an older Nacra at the NAs, because they would have still dominated the event. Technology is no replacement for talent.

I picked my new boat based on personal preferences and quality of workmanship. After getting a taste of sailing the Tornado I wanted a boat with great 'feel' to it.

CAUTION - 1 post troll with half the story.

Well put, Jake.

I was talking to Will Sunnocks about this a while back.

My memories of the conversation are thus



I would say that simply ther Capricorn behaves very slightly differently at a critical point down wind, and people just needed to learn to work out where this point is.

The last posting is right on the money, If you look at the hull shape in the right light you will see a vee from about 4" up from the bow to just past the front beam, The prototype was worse being the vee was 2" up the bow to the front beam, when you get the bow under the water to the vee it will hunt for the bottom, it is especially prone to happen in very gusty conditions, where you have little time to react, once you get the hulls up on a "plane"? it dosen't happen unless you hit a wrong wave. One day we were training in strong 25 gustting 30 knots on the pototype and it was almost impossible to get it going

What a load of rubbish

Just so this troll doesn't get off scott-free, I wasn't even there and managed to get the WHOLE STORY.

Nacra is putting out a boat a day on ONE MOLD. There are undoubtedly going to be quality control problems with gelcoat not be allowed to cure completely and so forth -- the factory is trying to keep up with demand.

Secondly, the mast that folded, was because it was honking, and the mainsheet came out of the cleat. I'd invite you to try the same on your tiger. Get back to me with the results hot shot.

I'd love to go down the list of quality problems I've seen with all kinds of Hobie products, but thats old hat, and I'm new game.

Tad replying ala SA style. OUCH! get'em.