| Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: Laruffa]
#85885 10/04/06 07:44 AM 10/04/06 07:44 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia | Yep, from my experiences, Scooby's post is correct.
I have writen somewhere here before that the Capricorn and I believe all these new designs (Blade, Infusion) give a false sense of security for new sailors. They feel like they get up and plane on the down winds and give you the impression that you can push them a lot more.
When the hull tips forwards past the horizontal, it can dive pretty quikly. It is just a matter of getting to know the boats limits and finding the point to back off.
Myself and 2 other Tornado sailors from our club, all have moved across to the Capricorn and we all agree on one thing..... You can not push the Capricorn as hard off the breeze as you can the T. The extra 2 foot of bow on the T makes a big difference. All 3 of us tripped over on the top mark rounding often when we first got the boats. Leant pretty quickly to not throgh it around the top quiet as agressivly as the T.
As for the centerboards breaking on the Infusion..... Well the Capricorn also had this problem initialy whilst the manufacture was still working out the loads the long skinny boards were under. Since then, Goodall futher developed the Caps boards, adding more carbon in the high load areas and now seems to have fixed the problem. Expect the Infusion to go down the same road. | | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: ]
#85886 10/04/06 07:49 AM 10/04/06 07:49 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia | Tornado Alive recently stated in another thread in another forum (SA), that with the use of a transom foot strap and a chicken line he has never stuffed his Capricorn down wind, so they can't be that bad. We do not use the toe strap, just the chicken line. We have stuffed the bows on the Cap and T, however never cartwheeled whilst using the chicken line on either boat. Spoke to Gashby about this on the weekend and his experiences..... He said they have found the same results, however they have cartwheeled dispite the chicken line on rare ocasions. Must of stuffed it big time..... Or may be my 95 kg crew hanging of the back helps keep it upright a bit more <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#85887 10/04/06 10:11 AM 10/04/06 10:11 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | Or may be my 95 kg crew hanging of the back helps keep it upright a bit more <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Hooray for the big dudes! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Jay
| | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#85888 10/04/06 02:08 PM 10/04/06 02:08 PM | Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered | We've only gone down the mine on the Tiger once since fitting a foot strap almost two years ago and given that we went down so hard that I was thrown clear of the boat from my location sitting on the tramp, I'd be surprised if a chicken line for my crew (92kg) would have made much difference. | | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: MauganN20]
#85890 10/04/06 03:59 PM 10/04/06 03:59 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,203 uk TEAMVMG
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203 uk | Maugan i know what you mean about the 20, but we did manage to go down the mine on ours quite often, once it came up with shoal of tiny fish on the tramp! I can mostly put it down to an early model baggy nylon spinnaker that really did us no favours,it eventually brought the mast down in a nice deep mine! I have never felt 'safer' downwind than on the Infusion, even with only 60kg on the wire behind me. We did a worlds qualifier race this season [against tigers and caps] and the wind got up and up until no-one could put their kites up. At the end, we looked behind us after the down-wind finish and we were the only boat left standing! 3 guys went through their own mainsails in that one.
Paul GBR7
Yes i know the worlds are open and we dont need to qualify for slots, thats just how we rank our UK events.
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
| | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: new2sailin2]
#85892 10/05/06 03:54 AM 10/05/06 03:54 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,203 uk TEAMVMG
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203 uk | I would like to raise the comments by MauganN20
Nacra is putting out a boat a day on ONE MOLD. There are undoubtedly going to be quality control problems I don't see the problem, any factory will try and do a mold a day. Lay it up today and knock it out tomorrow morning is what they all do. That would give each hull about 20hours in the mold. How long do you want?
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
| | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: GBR6]
#85896 10/05/06 08:07 AM 10/05/06 08:07 AM |
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3,114 BANNED MauganN20
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114 BANNED | “we are trying to maximise our profits by reducing quality control and producing as many boats as possible while the market will buy it.”
Its more like "We're trying to get peoples' boats to them (that they've already paid for) before the next <insert major regatta here> and quality may suffer." Let us not forget this boat is employing a new building method, and there are bound to be wrinkles to iron out in the process. As for the N20, We've never pitched it going downwind with the spin up, even in some pretty knarly sea states *knocks on wood*. We have pitched it while beam reaching when my lard-butt was too far forward during a "between the condos, offshore gonzo 30 knot blast" (Quote from Jake Kohl). | | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: scooby_simon]
#85898 10/05/06 08:27 AM 10/05/06 08:27 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | Scooby - that's the plan, along with at least one A. Good ho ! Looks like I'll need to let the club know they need to buy more beer ! Is this on top of the more they needed to order because Mark_P and Sailwave are coming? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
John Alani ___________ Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538 | | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: new2sailin2]
#85899 10/05/06 09:57 AM 10/05/06 09:57 AM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 81 F18OxJ
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81 | As I said this is not a Nacra bash I am just wondering what we the sailors/consumers are willing to accept boats knowing there is a high chance of failure. Also in a few years a lower resale as the buyers say “well that is one for the first batch of boats and we know the quality control was not there so there is higher chance of failure”.
Maybe I am wrong and people are prepared to accept lesser quality control for the product they want.
As I said this is not bashing any manufacturer just what the sailors are willing to accept. I agree, it serves no one to make excuses for defective work. How many rudders and daggerboards have we seen expode this year? And that was not the first mast to go either. We should be demanding that these issues be addressed instead of making excuses. Whether you're sailing Hobie, Nacra, Capricorn or whatever I think it's important to make sure we provide the proper 'feedback' in the hopes seeing a better product next year. And Maugan - I have lost the mainsheet several times on my Tiger without breaking the mast (I did bend one). | | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: Jalani]
#85900 10/05/06 10:03 AM 10/05/06 10:03 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Scooby - that's the plan, along with at least one A. Good ho ! Looks like I'll need to let the club know they need to buy more beer ! Is this on top of the more they needed to order because Mark_P and Sailwave are coming? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Umm, I thnink we'll need a bigger bar....
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: scooby_simon]
#85901 10/05/06 10:31 AM 10/05/06 10:31 AM |
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3,114 BANNED MauganN20
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114 BANNED | My post wasn't meant to be an "excuse." It was meant to inform people as to why these problems may be occurring. I've seen some blown up boards, I know they had some issues during Alter Cup as well. Its really sad to be honest. If you're scared of the quality, then don't buy their boats. And Maugan - I have lost the mainsheet several times on my Tiger without breaking the mast (I did bend one). Anymore ancedotal evidence to throw on the fire there? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: pitchpoling capricorns?
[Re: Jalani]
#85902 10/05/06 10:32 AM 10/05/06 10:32 AM |
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 254 Gower, Wales, UK sailwave
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 254 Gower, Wales, UK | Is this on top of the more they needed to order because Mark_P and Sailwave are coming? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You know as well as I do it's all in the name as science; evidence to date strongly suggests that Mark's performance on day 2 is directly related to the quantity of alcohol he consumes on the evening of day 1. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> | | |
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