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Storm Sails #86170
10/05/06 12:39 AM
10/05/06 12:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 493
Minnesota
Jeff Peterson Offline OP
addict
Jeff Peterson  Offline OP
addict

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 493
Minnesota
When it's REALLY windy, sailing can be a scary chore instead of fun. But, I still want to sail. Some sails can be reefed. (Hobie stopped putting in reef points, so it must not have been popular activity.) Monohulls often have "storm tri sails".

But how about this idea? What would a sail with an open-weave act like in high winds. The open-weave would let some air blow through the sail, making it less efficient and slower. But, then the penetrating air would also destroy the laminar flow over the sail surface.-Would that completely mess-up upwind sailing? Or would it just be less efficient, which is what is wanted?


Jeff Peterson
H-16 Sail #23721
Big Marine Lake, MN
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Storm Sails [Re: Jeff Peterson] #86171
10/05/06 08:09 AM
10/05/06 08:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I suppose that could work but the efficiency would be terrible. You would be a lot better off by taking a regular (old used) sail and cutting it down. Cut a bunch off the foot and put in a new clew and tack plate. For the head, attach a permenant wire cable with a ring that would compensate for the shorter sail and end up at the height the normal sail would be for hooking on the mast hook or to the original halyard system.


Jake Kohl
Re: Storm Sails [Re: Jeff Peterson] #86172
10/05/06 08:24 AM
10/05/06 08:24 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Open weave cloth would really screw up your performance, even for pottering around. You would get a massive pressure leak between the high and low pressure sides of your sail. In addition, the surface area exposed to the wind would increase a lot, so you get a lot more drag. That is not what you want in a lot of wind (capsizing backwards is no fun)

Re: Storm Sails [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #86173
10/06/06 07:39 AM
10/06/06 07:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
H
Hullflyer1 Offline
enthusiast
Hullflyer1  Offline
enthusiast
H

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
I sailed a P19 in Maui, Hawaii for years, and as we all know the wind really blows there. When it was 25-30 I used a P16 main and jib on the 19 and had a blast. I also had the boat set up for triple trapeze.

Re: Storm Sails [Re: Hullflyer1] #86174
10/06/06 02:43 PM
10/06/06 02:43 PM

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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote
I also had the boat set up for triple trapeze.


Sounds like a blast. In Pultneyville, what we do is leave the crew on the beach and do 3 skippers per boat when it is really blowing. We have had some crazy runs.

Re: Storm Sails [Re: ] #86175
10/06/06 02:49 PM
10/06/06 02:49 PM

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Anonymous
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What jake said…

There was a guy on this forum, I want to say a year or two ago from NYC. He had a prindle 18 and cut down a backup main. I can’t remember the final outcome exactly, but what he was planning on having a small piece of very low stretch line attached between the ring and sail to make up the difference for the shorter sail. He then attached a small diameter line to the ring to allow him to be able to unhook the ring without too much trouble. If my memory serves me correctly he was very happy with the setup.

Re: Storm Sails [Re: ] #86176
10/07/06 01:27 AM
10/07/06 01:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 74
Maryland, USA
PRagen Offline
journeyman
PRagen  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 74
Maryland, USA
Quote
... he was planning on having a small piece of very low stretch line attached between the ring and sail to make up the difference for the shorter sail. He then attached a small diameter line to the ring to allow him to be able to unhook the ring without too much trouble.


I used to have a Nacra 5.5 on which I used an old Nacra 5.0 mainsail when the wind really picked up. It worked great and kept the boat under control in higher winds (usually used in winds 20-25 MPH, out solo). The problem, as it was shorter and I tied a line from the sail head to the ring, was that the ring would just twist around causing hooking and unhooking problems. Half the time I had to put the boat on its side. I tried the separate line to the ring mentioned above but still had occasional problems.


Patrick Ragen
Taipan 4.9 USA 274
Re: Storm Sails [Re: Jeff Peterson] #86177
10/08/06 12:29 PM
10/08/06 12:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
old hand
hobiegary  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
My experience with reduced sail area includes furling my jib, reefing my jib, reefing my main, and using a smaller main.

Bill Mattson and I have been sailing my Mystere 6.0 to Channel Islands National Park for about 6 years now. We've sailed 20-79 nautical miles in open ocean on any given first day of such a trip. We've been in some situations with wind in the 30+ knot range where reefing was an absolute necessity in order to keep from having to place the cat into a turtled, sea-anchor position. (Ironically, the worst scenario we found ourselves in, was the time that a 80+ foot Blue Whale crossed within 10 or 20 feet of the cat. Had we been capsized and therefore turtled for safe parking, the mast would have been sheared by the beast.)

One time we ran the trip with a Tornado mainsail (new rig, sq. top). The T-main is 15% smaller than the M6.0 main. The boat was pretty doggy in normal winds. We carry more than 200 pounds of cargo on these trips. But when we crossed though the windiest part of that trip, through "windy lane," we were able to keep the boat down and keep her moving at a good pace in the forward direction, far easier than if I would have had the full size mainsail hoisted.

As for sails made of open mesh: no way. Extra drag and reduced efficiency is definitely NOT what you want in overpowered situations. You want less profile, less drag, less lift. Emphasis should be on less drag. Lower efficiencies produce more drag and less lift.

If you have the opportunity to bend a set of smaller sails during a hard blow, go for it. Be prepared to possibly have to deal with balance issues such as weather helm, lee helm, and you would be best served by adjusting mast rake to accommodate these changes.

Reefing a main works, if you have worked out the kinks in your system and implementation however, a reefed mainsail on a rotating catamaran rig is a severe compromise because you can not get the sail to flatten the same as if she was fully hoisted.

On jib reefing: I have had very good success in balancing a heavy helm (from increased weather helm when jib is furled) by leaving just a handkerchief size of a jib clew exposed. This would be considered roller reefing on a roller furler that is not designed for it, but the amount of load I am introducing (with such a small swatch of sailcloth exposed) is not an issue in this case.

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.

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