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Re: performance [Re: ] #86836
10/18/06 12:59 PM
10/18/06 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
S
srm Offline
enthusiast
srm  Offline
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S

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
Yes, this is true.
However, now you've got the sail raked to windward rather then operating vertically. Plus, the portion of the centerboard that is in the water is trying to pull the boat down, counteracting the vertical lift of the foil.
I've never sailed one of these boats, but it just seems that there could be something to gain by having more board in the water and sailing the boat flat.

sm

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: performance [Re: _flatlander_] #86837
10/18/06 01:05 PM
10/18/06 01:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 105
Bloomington, IN
jbecker Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 105
Bloomington, IN


Jeff
Tiger 849
Re: performance [Re: jbecker] #86838
10/18/06 02:14 PM
10/18/06 02:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
Kennethsf Offline
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Kennethsf  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
why could the [retractable?]foils not be mounted on the front beam??

Re: performance [Re: Timbo] #86839
10/18/06 05:47 PM
10/18/06 05:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Tornado  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Been There Done That!!

[Linked Image]


Quote
Just wait until a Tornado shows up with Foils on it...

(Of course that's a joke)


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: performance [Re: jimi] #86840
10/19/06 09:34 AM
10/19/06 09:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
sparky Offline
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Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
Quote
Obviously foiling will decrease dramatically wetted surface, which is the biggest aspect in terms of friction forces on boats. So theoretically a foiling cat should be faster than a non foiling cat (duh:)).


This would be true if there was not any drag induced by the lifting component of the foils. But how much drag is that lifting component and what effect does that have on the whole race around the bouys? In the end, that is the real question. If it were easy, then Phill Brander's Blade F16 would have lifting foils, wouldn't it? Or maybe it will be on Blade II. F16 and C-Class and 18 Square Meter are all classes that race around-the-bouys, but none of the winners in these classes are using lifting foils from what I have seen. I think Cogito uses asymetric boards that are angled for lift, but I never saw a picture of it with both hulls lifted out of the water.
Quote
foils sure made the Moths faster...


This bodes well for the development of a foiling cat!


Les Gallagher
Re: performance [Re: sparky] #86841
10/19/06 01:41 PM
10/19/06 01:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Currently there are no plans to make a full foiling or partially foiling F16. It is still not regarded to be a winning concept over all encountered conditions.

Personally I don't believe that full foiling is the route to succes anyway. If anything partial foiling is the way to go. This means that less then 100 % of the total weight is supported by the foils. The remainder is still in bouyancy mode (displacent). However no plans are considered of this setup either. For really effective partial foiling you need to use asymmetric foils which in themselfs are not particually handy in a crowded fleet. Pretty much the luff board needs to be raised while the lee one is fully lowered. This makes "banging a tack" rather problematic.

So don't hold your breath guys.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: performance [Re: Wouter] #86842
10/19/06 01:48 PM
10/19/06 01:48 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote


Currently there are no plans to make a full foiling or partially foiling F16. It is still not regarded to be a winning concept over all encountered conditions.

Personally I don't believe that full foiling is the route to succes anyway. If anything partial foiling is the way to go. This means that less then 100 % of the total weight is supported by the foils. The remainder is still in bouyancy mode (displacent). However no plans are considered of this setup either. For really effective partial foiling you need to use asymmetric foils which in themselfs are not particually handy in a crowded fleet. Pretty much the luff board needs to be raised while the lee one is fully lowered. This makes "banging a tack" rather problematic.

So don't hold your breath guys.

Wouter


Classic Wouter, I love it.

Matt

Re: performance [Re: ] #86843
10/19/06 02:15 PM
10/19/06 02:15 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 87
Trondheim, Norway
J
jimi Offline
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jimi  Offline
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J

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 87
Trondheim, Norway
I think the Formula 60s also uses asymetric foils that are angled.. Did not the White F20 also use angled foils? I think it had two sets of boards, one pair was angled. Lifting boards would be fast by making it possible to push the boat harder down hill would it not?

Re: performance [Re: jimi] #86844
10/19/06 02:33 PM
10/19/06 02:33 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
The ORMA60 tris definately use curved asymmetric foils in the floats to gain some vertical lift. You should know, after all a broken "banana foil" cost Knut Frostad the first place in this years Oops cup. I think Wouter is pretty spot on in his assesment. Banana foils with the aim to lift only parts of the hull clear will be the first step for competitive foiling (in my opinion).
If we look at how the Moths developed, the foilers did not win in the beginning. Then they started to dominate under certain conditions. Now you 'need' a foiler to be competitive in their worlds. It takes time to develop, but foils

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