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MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION #8741
07/14/02 07:43 PM
07/14/02 07:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
PSAILOR Offline OP
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PSAILOR  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
Can anyone help by discribing the difference...I am working on my H17 and Hobie calls for Monel rivets, I have always used SS rivets in the past on my Prindle. SS rivets are more expensive, but locally available. Is there a difference in strenght, performance, metal compatability??? What is the Monel??? a special alloy??? one down side I see is it has a standard steel pin, that would rust.



Any input would be appreciated!!

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Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: PSAILOR] #8742
07/15/02 09:02 AM
07/15/02 09:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Steven Bellavia Offline
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Steven Bellavia  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Hi,

Unlike Stainless Steel, Monel is mostly Nickel (67% Ni, 30% Cu, 1.4% Fe). Some Mocel alloys (Monel K-500 for example) can be much stronger than 18-8 or 316 stainless steel. However, the monel rivets I've seen availalbe are actually weaker than the 316 Stainless rivets. (See McMaster.com pages 3069 and 3070 which lists the shear and tensile strength of both). And yes, the monel rivets have a carbon steel shank I don't see the advantage of monel over stainless.


.
Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: Steven Bellavia] #8743
07/15/02 05:44 PM
07/15/02 05:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 96
Racine, Wisconsin
Leo Offline
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Leo  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 96
Racine, Wisconsin
Stronger is not always better. What is the sacraficial element in the design? The fuse, so to speak. Making something else stronger than it should be may make something else realatively weaker in the assembly. Bear in mind that some things are meant to break so that others don't.


Paul Scott Bartelt 2001 NACRA 6.0 NA #546
Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: Leo] #8744
07/15/02 07:14 PM
07/15/02 07:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
PSAILOR Offline OP
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PSAILOR  Offline OP
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Posts: 117
Is there any part on the cat with rivet failure a design consideration?

Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: PSAILOR] #8745
07/15/02 09:07 PM
07/15/02 09:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 96
Racine, Wisconsin
Leo Offline
journeyman
Leo  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 96
Racine, Wisconsin
Just consider what the failure modes are. If the rivet goes, what is the severity of the failure. If the rivet does not fail but the next item in the chain does, and has a worse consequence... you get the picture. Heck, the rivet may already be the strong link in the chain and this conversation is moot... Just give it a moment of thought, that's all.


Paul Scott Bartelt 2001 NACRA 6.0 NA #546
Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: Steven Bellavia] #8746
07/15/02 11:03 PM
07/15/02 11:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Ed Norris Offline
enthusiast
Ed Norris  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Hi, Steve,

Is Monel less apt to galvanic corfrosion when attaching stainless fittings to Aluminum masts? I realize it's customary to put some kind of layer between the fitting and mast; but doesn't the rivet contact both? So which do you use, stainless or aluminum? I one heard "monel" is okay in direct contact with both Al and Fe. Zat true?



Ed



Sail Fast, Ed Norris
Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: Ed Norris] #8747
07/16/02 09:23 AM
07/16/02 09:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Steven Bellavia Offline
member
Steven Bellavia  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Hi Ed,



Unless there are large loads, I often use aluminum rivets. With any rivet, I always use a generous amount of 5200, 4200, life-caulk or equivalent in the hole and under whatever fitting I am attaching. (never silicone - it doesn't hold up).



Monel is slightly less reactive with the aluminum regarding galvanic corrosion, but I don't like those rusty mandrels that get left behind. See Galvanic Corrosion Potential Chart:

http://www.pemnet.com/design_information/galvanic.html



Just my $.02 worth.



Steve



P.S. Where were you guys Sunday? We had 6 boats, perfect wind and water and ran two great buoy races with no sea grass, nasty power boaters, etc. Coming to Shelter Island??


.
Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: PSAILOR] #8748
07/16/02 04:07 PM
07/16/02 04:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
PSAILOR Offline OP
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PSAILOR  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
Thanks for the input....I think I am going to just use stainless with sealant around them.



Thanks



Mike

Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: PSAILOR] #8749
07/17/02 09:51 PM
07/17/02 09:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 198
D
davidtilley Offline
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davidtilley  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 198
Silicon seems to use a acetic acid solvent (vinegar smell) and that is why you cheap stainless fittings rust bloom when sealed with it. Incidently, vinegar works when you are trying to get that epoxy off your hands. (Silicon sealant probably makes a bigger mess, but ty it and let me know.)

Re: MONEL VS STAINLESS STEEL RIVETS QUESTION [Re: PSAILOR] #8750
07/17/02 10:18 PM
07/17/02 10:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
catman  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
My understanding is the monel won't react with the alum. like the stainless. As to the shank being steel. I have found the ones that are not steel tend to break off before the rivet is fully drawn tight. If you don't like the rusting shank, Neatly dab your 4200 there.


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