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Re: Area D South Results! [Re: Dan_Delave] #88168
11/05/06 08:40 PM
11/05/06 08:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81
F18OxJ Offline
journeyman
F18OxJ  Offline
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Posts: 81
Dan, they were all course 6 with a short offset at windward. No gate.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: F18OxJ] #88169
11/05/06 08:46 PM
11/05/06 08:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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F

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Posts: 3,348
If I'm remembering correctly, there was no gate because the conditions prohibited setting it properly. Others may have understood the rationale better.

Re: Area D South Results! [Re: John Williams] #88170
11/05/06 09:02 PM
11/05/06 09:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Quote

... the Blade is fast fast fast. Matt and Gina ... beating Nacra 20s and F-18s boat-for-boat. That is the good news. ... watch for the F-16 number to drop.



I have scored the fleet using the Texel handicap system. Here the F16's are rated no less then 4.5 % faster then under US-PN and that is alot !

The top 5 under Texel is :

-1- Ollie and Kelly Jason ------------ 9 points
-2- Kenny Pierce and John Casey --- 12 points
-3- Matt and Gina McDonald -------- 22 points
-4- Jennifer Lindsay, Fred Metcalf--- 26 points
-5- David and Cathy Ingram -------- 28 points


But its gets even better then this !

If I score the Blade F16 sailed by Matt/Gina not at the Texel F16 rating but at the Texel F18 rating then I find that they STILL end up at 3rd place with 25 points !

I have deep respect for Matt and especially Gina. This 3rd place was earned the right way, by fast sailing and not because of any peachy PN handicap.


But I'm not worrying yet, it'll take DECADES before the US Portsmouth rating comes anywhere near the Texel F16 rating.


And yes I want everybody to know that ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 11/05/06 09:21 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: Wouter] #88171
11/05/06 09:16 PM
11/05/06 09:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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tback  Offline
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Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
In race 1, Tina and I capsized 2x on the same spin' run, the second time I sent her thru my main sail (much like Robi at JPOR -- Batten to Batten along a seam line)

Tina's great! .... I'm heading for the beach to have a beer and Tina says "The "C" mark is that way <-- " (opposite direction).

I look at the main, and say "Tina, we have a "f****g" hole in our main (in a nice gentlemanly way). Which she says in reply, "you think it'll get any bigger?". WHAT A COMPETITOR.

I decided to err on caution and suggested we hit the beach and make a repair. I wasn't sure the sail tape would hold with such high winds and gusts.

We made the repair and got back out for the 3rd and 4th race. Surprisingly the repair worked great.

Soooo, we DNF in race 1, DNS in race 2 and in race 3 we exonerated ourselves because we didn't round the offset (DNF). (Frankly we hadn't seen it even in race 1.) Race 4 we did much better finishing (corrected) at 12th.

Too tired to write more....I'll check back later.

Last edited by tback; 11/05/06 09:37 PM.
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: Wouter] #88172
11/05/06 09:20 PM
11/05/06 09:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
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John Williams  Offline OP
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You misunderstand me, Wout. In every class, there are one or two teams that drive the number down - Matt and Gina are that team for the F-16s. Their position was EARNED - I did not mean to imply otherwise. But as the first boat in their class to cross the finish line, their's are the numbers that will be used in the next revisions.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: John Williams] #88173
11/05/06 09:31 PM
11/05/06 09:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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No disrespect intended toward you John, I fully understood what you meant and my post was not at all directed in a negative towards you.

But it'll be a while till the portsmouth numbers drop. We had a few of similar scorings happen in the past. One was when Jim Boyer was over here last year. Kirt Simmons actually won the Alter Cup Area D south qualifier 3 years ago singlehanding his Taipan. Diddly sh!t happened with those results then. So I'm not holding my breath now.

The remainder of my post was just to show everybody how much the McDonalds earned their place. I find it a significant achievement for a crew that got off the Hobie 16 last year to do this well in such a fleet now. With Matt being very busy it is not like these guys train alot. As far as I can gether their practise time were the Harken distance race events. Only a handful of those each year.

Best of luck to you all.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 11/05/06 09:33 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: John Williams] #88174
11/05/06 09:44 PM
11/05/06 09:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 62
K
KMarshack Offline
journeyman
KMarshack  Offline
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K

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 62
Hi John,

Has the Alter Cup been shortened to just three days? April 27-29 is posted.

Ken
Area H

Re: Area D South Results! [Re: John Williams] #88175
11/05/06 09:47 PM
11/05/06 09:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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F

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Posts: 3,348
Quote
. . .But as the first boat in their class to cross the finish line, their's are the numbers that will be used in the next revisions.


Using that logic, shouldn't the number also come down for the F18 and Nacra 20?

Re: Area D South Results! [Re: Wouter] #88176
11/05/06 09:52 PM
11/05/06 09:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline OP
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Long Beach, California
Hey Wouter -

Actually it was Jennifer and Kelly that won on a Taipan 4.9 in 2004 - they rated 66.9 then. The current number is 65.2 - I think that is a pretty significant drop in just a couple of years... Use today's ratings and the girls would have been third behind JC and Kenny on a Nacra 20 and Alex and Patsy on an F18.

Regardless - great weekend and mucho fun. I like this club a lot. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: fin.] #88177
11/05/06 09:55 PM
11/05/06 09:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
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John Williams  Offline OP
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Quote
Using that logic, shouldn't the number also come down for the F18 and Nacra 20?


Heya Pete -

Possibly - those classes have more accumulated data than the younger F16 class, so changes are less dramatic as a result - usually.

Disclaimer - I do not sit on the Portsmouth Committee. I just turn in the numbers. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: KMarshack] #88178
11/05/06 09:57 PM
11/05/06 09:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
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John Williams  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Hi Ken - long time.

It will still be a week long event, but the dates have not been set. I'll get Darline to correct the web page. Thanks for catching it. I think she pulled those dates from an e-mail discussing what days the club needed to reserve the park from the City of Melbourne.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: John Williams] #88179
11/05/06 10:05 PM
11/05/06 10:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe
You are right about Jennifer and Kelly of course but I also seem to remember Kirt Simmons won it one time singlehanding his Taipan. He didn't go to the Alter Cup itself that year, which I thought was a real pitty hence I remember it. Maybe somebody else knows ? Kirt ?

Anyway with your example of Jennifer and Kelly and possibly Kirt we have now shown that good results for these boats do not really change their US-PN in any meaningful way. Hence the US F16 sailor taking the matter in their own hands now and requesting faster handicaps at events.

66.9 back in 2004 ? I had forgotten how low the rating was back then. At that time I was already sailing my boat of the F18 rating under Texel, think about 63 under PN (6 % faster).

It is not the way the world should be but ... it is the only way to get it done.

Thinks for the info John.

Also I hear everybody say how nice the Tamba club and it members are. I may just have to go there for a short sailing holliday !

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 11/05/06 10:07 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: John Williams] #88180
11/06/06 09:01 AM
11/06/06 09:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 35
Warsaw, IN
F18MattJ Offline
newbie
F18MattJ  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 35
Warsaw, IN
How many spots do they give for the alter cup?

Re: Area D South Results! [Re: scross] #88181
11/06/06 09:35 AM
11/06/06 09:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Quote
congrats Olli !!!!! Capricorn is looking well ... Doug


Congrats Olli... absolutly, but it was Kelly doing all the work!

WELL DONE KELLY!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
I second that .... [Re: David Ingram] #88182
11/06/06 09:51 AM
11/06/06 09:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Congratulations Ollie and Kelly Jason. 4 bullets in 7 races. You guys smoke !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: F18MattJ] #88183
11/06/06 09:57 AM
11/06/06 09:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Quote
How many spots do they give for the alter cup?


From the Championship Conditions:

Quote
2 Selection of Teams
2.1 Area Eliminations – There will be Area Eliminations
to select the teams that will represent the Areas at
the National Championship. The Area Elimination
events must not include ineligible teams in the
same start or fleet with eligible teams at regattas
that are hosting multiple fleets.
2.2 National Championship, Eligible Teams (20):
a) Area Eliminations – the first place team, or the
second or third place team if the first place team
is unable to attend, from each of the ten (10) US
SAILING Area Elimination events.
b) Additional Teams (10):
• Two representatives from the Hobie Class
Association, selected by the North American
Hobie Class Chair.
• Two representatives from the classes
manufactured by Performance Catamarans
and selected by Performance Catamarans.
• One representative from a double-handed
class or single-handed class, selected by
their appropriate class representatives. The
class shall be selected by the U.S. Multihull
Championship Committee – this is
designated the “rotating” class.
• One representative from the Olympic
Multihull Class, selected by their National
Class Representative.
• Three teams selected from Open Petition by
the Alter Cup Committee.
• The returning U.S. Multihull Champion from
the prior year.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: John Williams] #88184
11/06/06 11:20 AM
11/06/06 11:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
So what is the "designated rotating class" this year JW?


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: Jalani] #88185
11/06/06 11:30 AM
11/06/06 11:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline OP
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Long Beach, California
The Committee will accumulate the results from all the different classes' nationals and come up with a ballot that includes how many boats were on the start line. The ballot is circulated shortly after the manufacturers designate their teams so that there is no duplication. Participation is the biggest factor - a class with 40 boats at their nationals has a better chance than a class with only five or six.

Brings up a good topic for discussion, though: there is a proposal on the agenda to change the way the invitations are allocated next year. Rather than give Hobie and Performance both two slots, it has been suggested they each get one, with one going to the A-Class and one going to the Formula 18 class, since these two classes are multi-manufacturer and have consistently high participation at their respective national events. What do you folks think of that?


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: John Williams] #88186
11/06/06 11:42 AM
11/06/06 11:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
It's really none of my business since it doesn't affect anyone this side of the pond John, but I'd have thought that it was high time that A's and F18's got automatic slots. Particularly with the growth that both classes have demonstrated in the US. Doesn't the Tornado class rate a slot as well?

Do you not give a youth team a slot to come and play with the 'big boys'? I'm thinking particularly of your top rated youth team that are working towards an Olympic place.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Area D South Results! [Re: Jalani] #88187
11/06/06 12:11 PM
11/06/06 12:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
The Olympic Class automatically gets a slot, though they seldom take it.

There is not a permanent Youth slot, but for the last several years, the Committee has voted to give the current Youth Champion one of the three petition slots - I fully expect that to happen again this year.

Personally, I agree that As and F-18s should both get a slot. Strong competition. The current set up was written before these classes had such consistent participation. I like change, and it seems warranted in this case. I still would like to hear what others think, since it is a decision that requires votes by representatives - decisions on the Committee are supposed to be constituency-based.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
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