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Multihull News from Brazil #89750
11/14/06 10:56 PM
11/14/06 10:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Bárbara Wright Cup

From November 17 to 19 in Búzios the 11th Bárbara Wright Cup will take place. Participants include 1980 Olympic Champions Alex Welter and Lars Bjorgstrom, together again in a Tornado after decades in other classes - that includes about everything that floats, IACC and the like.

This competition is one of the main Tornado events in Brazil, together with the Nationals and the Pre-Olympic series. Besides Welter and Bjorgstrom (a tipical Brazilian name <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), other confirmed participants are: Lars Grael (Tornado olympic bronze 1988 and 1996), Clínio Freitas (Tornado olympic bronze 1988), Kiko Pellicano (Tornado Olympic bronze 1996), Eduardo Penido (470 olympic gold 1980), Betão Pandiani (adventurer who crossed from the Horn to Antartida in a cat and slightly extended the Tybee 500 - to Greenland), Pedro Bulhões (Laser Pan-American Gold 1983), Roger Wright (A-Cat Brazilian champion) and Cláudia Swan (470 Pan-American gold), among others.

The XI Bárbara Wright Cup is promoted by Roger Wright and organized by Búzios Vela Clube (BVC) and Lars Grael. Speaking of him, Lars was recently elected President of the Brazilan Federation of Sailing (CBVM), which is Brasil's ISAF Member National Authority. It'll certainly be nice to have a multihuller in the sport's highest position in Brazil. It's alright to envy our luck... In the long term your country will have one too. But in the long term we'll all be DEAD!

Invited classes are: Tornado, A-Cat, Formula 20, Eagle Cat, Hobie 16, Hobie 14, Supercat 17 and Open (Portsmouth, I guess). Anything with more than one hull and a sail is welcome. Naturally they accept entries from countries with weaker multihull representation... so everyone is welcome to the party. There's good reason to celebrate!


Luiz
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Multihull News from Brazil [Re: Luiz] #89751
11/15/06 06:07 PM
11/15/06 06:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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thom  Offline
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Posts: 351
Dallas, Texas
Hey Luiz-

Are you racing/siling your new boat???

thom

Re: Multihull News from Brazil [Re: thom] #89752
11/16/06 08:56 AM
11/16/06 08:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
No. It is waiting the re-engineering of some wrongly designed parts (by the designer) to raise the mast, measure the rig, cut the sails and launch. Could be done in a week, if I had time to go to Rio. By remote control it may take forever...

As a rule, one should never buy plans or do business with Aldis Eglajs: he has never delivered a complete set of plans, those he delivered are flawed and he never confirmed being legally authorized to design boats. My personal opinion is that his "business plan" is to use this excelent concept (hydrofoil assisted folding tri) just to scam people.

The last photo follows attached.

Luiz

Attached Files

Luiz
Re: Multihull News from Brazil [Re: Luiz] #89753
11/16/06 07:05 PM
11/16/06 07:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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I am sorry it worked out this way for you.

thom

Re: Multihull News from Brazil [Re: thom] #89754
11/17/06 01:08 PM
11/17/06 01:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Not only to me, to many people.
A strange thing in the whole story is the conduct of Multihulls Magazine. Even after I informed in detail the situation, they NEVER warned people about the designer. He wrote some articles there (3 to 6, I guess). As far as I know all was published for free, so I started to imagine some bad things, like cumplicity, but I guess this is not really the case.


Luiz
Re: Multihull News from Brazil [Re: Luiz] #89755
11/27/06 04:17 AM
11/27/06 04:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8
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taswegian Offline
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Posts: 8
Luiz, do you know anything about the Catri 27 for sale on the Swedish site? Sounds like it might have been a similar story to yours.

Re: Multihull News from Brazil [Re: taswegian] #89756
01/25/07 06:36 AM
01/25/07 06:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
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MrW Offline
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Posts: 3
Hello Luiz. I´m looking for a new trimaran. I find the Catri 27 from Aegean Marine very nice. I understand that you´ve had some problems with the designer. What do you think about Aegean´s boat? Does it contain wrongly designed parts like yours?
Kind Regards /Mr W

Re: Multihull News from Brazil [Re: MrW] #89757
01/25/07 09:23 AM
01/25/07 09:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Dear Mr. W.

I am afraid I can only provide second hand information about Aegeanmarine, from sources believed to be reliable, but that I can not personally guaranty.

As far as I know, they did have similar problems with the designer and spent lots of money to re-calculate the boat. Race results indicate that they were technically succesfull.
My advice is to make a thorough due diligence prior to buying a boat from small shipyards. Check their financial situation, contact previous owners, etc. Do not rely on magazines, they have their own interests to protect.

Good luck,
Luiz


Luiz
Re: Multihull News from Brazil [Re: taswegian] #89758
01/25/07 09:39 AM
01/25/07 09:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Yes, I know that boat. It is the second built from the same set of molds mine was.

The owner is a Spaniard pilot. He bought the kit from the Brazilian shipyard for delivery to Riga where the designer was supposed to complete, assemble and rig it. The kit was shipped with some months delay in perfect order (as per the photos I received).

The boat suffered superficial damage during transport due to hitting the container's walls. Upon arrival the designer took six months to take the boat out of customs, parts were stolen, fines collected due to the delay and, following the accumultaion of problems with the designer, the owner decided to finish the boat elsewhere.

What happened afterwards is unclear to me.

What I can assure is that, as in my case, the boat was constructed strictly according to the available plans and both the shipyard and the designer were paid in full. I assisted the owner in this area and the payments went through the bank I worked at.

For more information, contact Mr. Jose Alarcon - alarcas@ya.com


Luiz
Don't do business with Aldis Eglajs [Re: MrW] #89759
01/25/07 10:15 AM
01/25/07 10:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Since you are interested in Aegeanmarine, you should also read its owner's words on the subject.

From Mikhail (Mike) Domnich:

Quote
…I am working with Aldis almost 16 years, and believe me, I know him very well. (Centaurus 35, 38, 40uc, Catri 26r, 27. He is a great multi-huller and Multihull scientist, but he is not a real designer and engineer. For sure he is not a good businessman. He was so smart to make a patent of Catri hydrofoil system. That is all. Why he change a builders each year, and no final production line at full 7 years? Answer very simple: he is old and rush to make his own money off the patent royalty. If no production, change the builders and make your initial royalty from new builder. Simple!!! I was involve in this game and know exactly. He does not care about any responsibility before customers (you are a bright sample) and builders (myself, Gints, Harijs, Andersons & ect). No one builder have full designers documentation for any his projects, because he does not have it. Simple!!! He can make a blue print and wrong structural engineering (it is why I change about 90% of his structural reinforcement on Catri projects and make the project with full building documentation myself. It take time and lots of additional money). I was quiet lots of years about Aldis, because it is only my opinion, but after i read messages at the Catri owners forum and look at the situation, i can't to be silent any more...


This short summary from the representative of Harken and North Sails in Riga is also relevant:

Quote

...Sailors in Latvia didn’t remember about Eglais today -3-5 very old (30 year) catamarans in the water only. Not any Catries. Catri was the project to take money from crazy sailors from old countries not boat design. It was the supper reckless scheme and cheating. You are one of victim. Sorry, but it is reality. I’m not happy that we leave in one country with Aldis...


Good luck,
Luiz


Luiz
Re: Don't do business with Aldis Eglajs [Re: Luiz] #89760
01/25/07 11:36 AM
01/25/07 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
M
MrW Offline
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Thank you Luiz. I will check up on the company before deciding anything. I live in Sweden myself, and I know that there is one Catri 27 from Aegean Marine (Blade runner) here allready. I will try to contact the owner and have a look at the boat and maybe get a testsail.

Good luck with your own boat!
Regards/
Mr W

Re: Don't do business with Aldis Eglajs [Re: MrW] #89761
01/25/07 02:24 PM
01/25/07 02:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Seems to me that you can best steal all the idea's that are good about the catri and then have you own boat designed by an trustworthy (marine) engineer. Forget about the patent, that only applied when you are building the boat for commericial exploitation. If you only build one boat for personal use then no patent rights can be brought against you.

Patent law in Europe only protects commercial exploitation of an idea, not the (private) use of it.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Don't do business with Aldis Eglajs [Re: Wouter] #89762
01/25/07 02:59 PM
01/25/07 02:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote


Seems to me that you can best steal all the idea's that are good about the catri and then have you own boat designed by an trustworthy (marine) engineer. Forget about the patent, that only applied when you are building the boat for commericial exploitation. If you only build one boat for personal use then no patent rights can be brought against you.

Patent law in Europe only protects commercial exploitation of an idea, not the (private) use of it.

Wouter


In this respect, patent law is the same in the US


Jake Kohl
Re: Don't do business with Aldis Eglajs [Re: Jake] #89763
01/25/07 03:54 PM
01/25/07 03:54 PM
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Posts: 3
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MrW Offline
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Somehow I still believe that the Catri design is a good boat. At least I want to believe that. I find the interior of the boat perfect for me, lots of space! And it seems to be a good sailor to. As Mike Domnich from Aegean says, they have changed 90% of the structural reinforcements from the original design. I have e-mailed the owner of the Catri 26 (prototype for Catri 27) about the boat, and I´m waiting for his reply. Hopfully it will be good news!

Re: Don't do business with Aldis Eglajs [Re: Jake] #89764
01/25/07 11:13 PM
01/25/07 11:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Quote
Quote
Seems to me that you can best steal all the idea's that are good about the catri and then have you own boat designed by an trustworthy (marine) engineer. Forget about the patent, that only applied when you are building the boat for commericial exploitation. If you only build one boat for personal use then no patent rights can be brought against you.

Patent law in Europe only protects commercial exploitation of an idea, not the (private) use of it.


In this respect, patent law is the same in the US


Derek Kelsal wrote in another forum that he doubts the patents could resist any serious attack. I did not know that the law allowed for private use of patents. This opens a new area of possibilities for my next boat. But first I must check how this one performs.

Thanks a lot for the comments and support. It feels very bad to be fooled like I was.

All the best,


Luiz
Re: Don't do business with Aldis Eglajs [Re: MrW] #89765
01/25/07 11:53 PM
01/25/07 11:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Quote
...I have e-mailed the owner of the Catri 26 (prototype for Catri 27) about the boat, and I´m waiting for his reply. Hopfully it will be good news!


There's no need to wait for a reply: Gunnar likes his boat.

Write me off list if you want the email of most owners and surviving builders. The list is short: less then 20 Catris were comissioned by 6 to 9 shipyards (most of them broken) in about 10 years. The longer series I know of was about 6 from the same (broken) builder.

The recurrent problems are lack of plans/information and business complications with the designer, usually followed by a difamatory campaign to discredit the last "burned" builder/owner.

Whatever you do, don't do it in conexion with the designer.

Good luck,
Luiz
sysfx@yahoo.com


Luiz

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