I would like to put a hooter or hooterlike headsail on my '78 solcat, but cant bring myself to pony up the 3 Grand to buy one considering I got the boat for free and re-rigged it for less than 2 grand. my question is, what is the diffrence between the hooter and a Genoa. Can I get a genoa and a furler off ebay and a wind surfer mast and rig this up my self? or is there something about the shape of the genoa that it wont work right? By the way, thanks to all of the posters last spring who helped me thru the rebuilding process. I had a great summer single handing my like-new solcat 18. It is very simply rigged and is a breeze to single hand. Its awesome to be back on two hulls after so many years, and I dont plan on stopping sailing just because its winter. Yea, I read it, dont pee in the dry suit. And thanks for that info.

I have a reacher on my Hobie 17 as an alternate. Works great when I want extra power and fun. Have uni rig for class. Still trying to learn spin on 4.3

http://www.thebeachcats.com/modules.php?...=view_album.php

Doug Snell

My understanding is that a Hooter is designed as a reaching/mild downwind sail, that can also be used a bit above a beam reach in very light wind. A genoa off an appropriate sized monohull (not sure what that would be) that was originally designed to furl would be workable, certainly giving you more sail area in the light stuff.
Be careful about attaching your hooter halyard above the hounds more than 1/3 the distance between the hounds to the top of the mast. I needed a 2 to 1 purchase on the halyard to get enough luff tension for the sail to set well and fulr properly. And furl early! The most trouble I had/have with them, is to get them rolled up cleanly once I'm overpowered.
I've bought 2 lightly used hooters off these classifieds over the years both for $800 or less, and one included the furler and upper swivel. I've used aluminum windsurfing masts for poles on and TheMightyHobie18 and a Reynolds 21 with good success, just limit length to about 12.5', and cutoff the tip and have a substantial cap made (alum or ss) that can transfer the loads to the pole without crushing or tearing it.
And yeah, that's good advice about the drysuits!

Dave

My understanding is that a Hooter is designed as a reaching/mild downwind sail, that can also be used a bit above a beam reach in very light wind. A genoa off an appropriate sized monohull (not sure what that would be) that was originally designed to furl would be workable, certainly giving you more sail area in the light stuff.
Be careful about attaching your hooter halyard above the hounds more than 1/3 the distance between the hounds to the top of the mast. I needed a 2 to 1 purchase on the halyard to get enough luff tension for the sail to set well and fulr properly. And furl early! The most trouble I had/have with them, is to get them rolled up cleanly once I'm overpowered.
I've bought 2 lightly used hooters off these classifieds over the years both for $800 or less, and one included the furler and upper swivel. I've used aluminum windsurfing masts for poles on and TheMightyHobie18 and a Reynolds 21 with good success, just limit length to about 12.5', and cutoff the tip and have a substantial cap made (alum or ss) that can transfer the loads to the pole without crushing or tearing it.
And yeah, that's good advice about the drysuits!

Dave

I am at present gettting ready to go forward with a Hooter on a bridle foil for my Taipan project. Reading Rick Whites descriptions of his Hooter set up a much better than Reach performance can be gained with them. I am expecting a true up wind capablity with it.
Are you there Rick? IS this the case?

my cat is an 18 footer and I belive the mast is 28' , what should I be looking for as far as luff, leach, and foot measurements. in fact, what are the measurements of your hooter's. If thats not too personal a question. Also, I have noticed that the genoa sails have a % listed in the spec's. what is that? Should I be looking for a Gennaker instead of a Genoa? it sounds like a "Gennaker" would be made of a lighter material but may be cut too full to furl. Is this right?

Right! Seems DaveFarmer is a bit off in his assessment. Obviously because he has not seen them in action.
The Hooter is a spinnaker in essence and is designed to sail downwind. While it does not have the big shoulder that spinnakers have (I should say "had" since the modern spinnaker is looking more and more like a Hooter)you need to sail it a bit hotter than the standard spin.

It is also awesome on a reach.

And when the air lightens up, you can really sock it in tight and sail upwind as well, pointing just as high as with main, or main/jib and going faster. The secret is to keep the windward side telltales fluttering (if you keep them flowing you will not be able to point as high as you should)

hope this helps,
Rick

I've had Hooters (by Calvert and Smythe) on an TheMightyHobie18 Mag, SC 20, Reynolds 21 and now Flight Risk. I'm certainly not the sailor Rick is, and that may be enough to explain my inability to get the boats to point as high as he can. And the SC and FR both have assym spins that carry noticibly deeper than the Hooters, but I love the Hooters none the less, I'm just not sure they do everything well. I think they are more appropriate for recreational sailing than windward leward racing.
I'd advise getting your pole set up and halyard positioned and then measure your luff length, and allow for the length of the furler, swivel and hlyd blk. I'd also reccomend attaching the furler to the pole tip with a snap hackle that has a trip line running back to the main xbeam. That way if you have a malfunction, you can release the whole assembly and drop it onto the tramp.

Dave

Would you all agree this statement to be true? (from wikipedia)

A gennaker is optimal for a beam reach, while an asymmetric spinnaker is optimal for a broad reach or run.

And are "you all" calling the third sail on a F18, F16, I17...what?

And, the major difference between the gennaker and the hooter (assumining both are designed for the same purpose) is one furls and the other one douses?

Seems like the hooter is a no brainer with comments like

What is the difference in trimming the hooter compared to other third sails? Constant or not?

John:

Spin on the 4.3 is a snuffer system, like on the I-20's. I have never used this type of system, so it will be trial and error. Reacher is a roller furler system, like a big jib. It was easy to learn and REALLY made the 17 fly, especially downwind. I furl it about 15 going to weather.

Doug

Thanks Doug, I understand that.



OK. Sounds easy. Just like downwind on any boat? Don't loose flow on the backside? Is there more speed to overcome the distance sailed? Are we saying two identical boats, one with a hooter and one with a spin, both sailed by equal skill crew will be a dead heat?

Would you size a hooter the same area as the max. allowable by the class for the spin/gen?

What is the matereial of the Hooter? Spin cloth? What is the longevity compared to a "spin"?

I can't agree with that statement, because in many parts of the world, including Europe, the term "genaker" is synonymous with asymmetrical spinnaker.

OK, Answer ze qvestion. How big are your Hooters?

I don't have any.

Here is a big purple hooter.

Maby I need to re-direct the question of size to Dave Farmer.

Mine have/had a luff of 28' 4", and I ran it on a TheMightyHobie18 with a 12.5' pole, I ran it all the way to the masthead (added running backstays). It was really way too much sail for that boat, but I sure had a great time! When I ran it on the SC20 (one season), it was with a 14' 4" pole and the hlyd was attached about 3' above the hounds (about a third of the distance between the hounds and the top of the mast), and it just barely fit. Worked quite well, though I never liked having all that windage out there in over 15 kts. Dropped it onto the tramp a couple of times when the wind piped up or the furling fouled up , but that really cluttered up the deck. The spin and snuffer set up is noticeably less windage.
The hooter is now with Flight Risk, wintering in MT, so I can't measure the foot. Both hooters from Smythe and Calvert, were mylar sails that held up pretty well, though I'm sure they have a limited lifespan. The material is happiest when it is furled cleanly , and doesn't like it when it rolls up unevenly (when it's flogging), or when the sail is taken down furled and wrinkled to handle it. Longest life would be if it could remain furled on the boat all the time. I sewed up snorkle cover out of Sunbrella and had a small 1/8" halyd to pull it up when I put the boat to bed.
Both had/have Harken small screecher furlers, and because of the large size of these sail relative to the furler size, I needed to maintain tension on the furling line (3/16") as the sail was being deployed, or the line would enter the drum sloppily and jam up before the sail was completely unfurled. On FR I've got a tapered furling line, so the dia of the line on the drum is less than 1/8", which has reduced theproblem substantially.
I think you're best advised to mock up a pole and temporary hlyd blk and take an actual measurement for your luff length. Remember to allow for the swivel and drum heights. This measurement will be very dependent on how high the pole tip is when under tension. And I set up a 2 to 1 purchase system for the hlyd to get enough luff tension.
Feel free to call me if you wish.

Davem 509 276 6355

Thanks Dave. Those are the measurements I was looking for. A foot measurement would be nice if anyone has that.
I usually single hand the old Sol so I guess that I will need to get a couple diffrent sizes to change out depending on wind conditions.
I have never used a furling system, so I also have some questions about that. Do I need to get spin pole ends for the pole? I see that they have a release on the outboard tip. Is that necessary?
More questions later. Gotta go.

I think that a lot of the info you are finding is relative to the monohull type sailcraft. A genoa is a foresail that is larger than the jib (which is only as big as the area between the mast and the forestay). A genoa overlaps the mainsail and is numbered by the amount of overlap ie: 130%. The spin pole you refer to has the release on the ends because they use the pole on the spinnaker sheets. The hook is attached to alternating sheets as they jibe the boat. The pole on the catamaran is used for a different function because a cat doesn't have a fixed point up front on the centerline.

My hooter with the 28 foot luff has a foot of around 14'. You might be looking for something closer to 24'luff and 12' or 13' foot.
As pointed out, a genoa off a monohull won't be a good match. You really want a sail that's designed to furl, and it will be flatter than a genoa, both to reduce the drag that will be generated at the cat's higher speeds, and facilitate smooth furling. It's more than just additional square feet of sail.
And yeah, it sounds like you're looking at monhull spin poles. For an 18 foot cat all you need the lower 12 some feet of stout windsurfing mast, or a 2' dia aluminum pole. It'll be attached somehow to the main crossbeam, supported and centered below the bridle wires (I used 3/16" Dyneema), and the tip of the pole will have wires run back to the bows or bridle tangs.
PM me, I think I have some pics of the SC20 set up.

Dave