Went sailing at Datchet this morning - having a blast, twin-wiring, plenty of wind. Gently heading downwind (no kite) to the start area before the first race and we managed a full-on butt-over-tit pitchpole. The boat was stood on its bows and then rolled forwards so it was turtled.

It took me a couple of minutes to sort out the righting line and start trying to right it, by which time there was absolutely no way it was coming back up on its own. We eventually managed to get it on its side with the help of the rescue boat, and then finally managed to right it with two people on the righting line and two people lifting the mast from the RIB.

It's seems pretty obvious that the mast had leaked. I didn't have time to investigate today so I'm trying to figure out what happened and what I need to do to fix it. This is the first time we've had the boat turtle and I'm guessing that the pressure of having the mast tip 8.5m under popped the seal in the top of the mast.

When we got the boat out, there was some water running out of the base for quite a while. I'm not sure if this means that the seal in the mast above the internal d/h has a leak too.

We managed to capsize again later, but without turtling, and once again, there was no way we could get it back up, so I assume that the mast was still full of water, or filled up quickly from the tip. (In that sort of wind I can normally right the boat on my own with ease)

I've never paid much attention to what's at the top of the mast, other than the fact that it looks like there's a bit of foam in there. How do I go about finding and fixing a leak? And, out of curiosity, how on earth do you put a seal in above the internal downhaul?

Paul

Ouch, sounds like a hand full. I believe your blade is a VMI blade correct? When I got mine, the top mast plug was one of things I changed after a few sails. Reason was, I capsized a few times and the mast went further down than what I was comfortable with, so I assumed the top plug was leaking.

On my blade, there was a loosely fitting blue foam plug, under what seems like another silicone or 4200rtv plug/cap. I removed all this stuff, the foam was already soaked in water. I replaced it with higher density foam and the foam was cut bigger than the mast. Because it was cut bigger than the mast's profile, when I installed it, it was a huge pain in the butt task. But once it was in, it was in and NOT moving anywhere. Plugged it all up with silicone sealant and called it a day.

What I am saying the TOP MAST PLUG that comes stock with the VMI blades is not a very good one. You should change it.

It's just a thought but don't rule out expanding filla-foam. However, without seeing the problem this may not be a solution. Still sounds as if you had great sail/race.

I was considering this, but fill-a-foam will soak in water even quicker than the blue foam that is installed. Fill a foam is good, if there is no contact with water. Unless you dont capsize that often, that it is a good option. But if you sail anything like me (capsize every sail) then that fill a foam is not a good idea.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm quite surprised that foam works at all, actually. I wouldn't expect it to be sufficiently water proof. I would have thought that a good solution would be a small plastic insert laid on top of the foam and then siliconed in. Should be properly watertight, with the foam adding support to stop it popping when it's 8m under.

Paul

I didn't think you could pitch pole the Blade, you know, with the advanced hull shape and all <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi all,

this sort of thing is becoming a problem I hear from OZ as well as on the Forum. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think number one priority is to have righting ropes that are set up ready to be used, as I mentioned in another thread I cartwheeled twice last weekend with kite up. The only time taken was getting kite put away when boat was on it's side. My righting ropes 8mm, run in a vee from main beam inside of hull, almost to the back beam in the middle and then back to main beam inside of hull on opposite side. The rope has a loop tied in the middle which is at the right length for me to put on my trap hook and lean out against while I am standing on the hull, there is bungee tied to the loop which runs through a pulley at the middle of the back beam then forward to the main beam, this gives enough stretch to let rope out and pull it back under tramp after righting. Once the mast and sail break free of the water I pull hand over hand until the boat flips up. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Certainly when boat is mast down, mast seals are going to be under most pressure. I have never found foam and silicone to be adequate, alot of places we sail in OZ masts hit the bottom (sand or mud)which pushes foam into mast breaking the seal. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

We have found if you want mast sealed at the tip, best to make a cap that fits into the mast with a flange that sits proud of mast end so it can not be pushed in. I have seen poly bread board used for this, it's cheap easy to get from most hardware or kitchen shops and some supermarkets. Easy to work with hack saw blade and file/rasp. Then silicone seal and put screws through mast into plug to hold in place positively. The other option is light wood or even the piece of foam sandwich that is left when hatches are cut in deck.

Altered's carbon mast has a number of rivets right at the top, so in this case I have sealed it 2" down. With a light timber pug which I covered in epoxy so it is glued in place. (I figure if I ever need to remove it I will drill it out.) Then all other fixings in mast are sealed with silicone. The big difference to most is that there are no plugs at the bottom of the mast the base plate has a hole of finger size in it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

The drain hole at the base of the mast use to be a required safety standard in Vic. Not sure about now. It has always allowed me to get the boat righted, as even if there is water in mast, it drains out once you get it horizontal. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> The only time I have been unable to get a cat upright was when I got it onto it's side from turtled but I was unaware that it had a plug above the hounds and it had filled with water and mud above this, so was to heavy for me to get up. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Hope this may give some solutions. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I have given up trying to keep my Stealth mast water/air tight. No matter haow many times I have sealed all the rivets etc. i still get water in the mast.

I've 'solved' the problem by having a 3/8" drain hole at the bottom of the mast. As with Gary, as soon as the boat is up the mast drains - ready for the next capsize <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It should be possible to get it (suffucient) watertight, I have capsized my (previous) Taipan 4.9 at least ten times <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, never complete turtle but also never water in the mast. It was always possible to right the boat single handed, so if there was water in it, it would be a little bit.

But I noticed on my Blade (same mast section) that after just one capsize there was some water in it, and it took a couple of weeks before it was gone. Just a capsize, not going turtle. You might have a look at the Taipan setup

Geert

I'm sorry to say that my mast is perfectly water tight as well.

I've capsized plenty of times and not water in the mast.

I guess some builder has not been paying attention to doing it right.

Wouter

Add me to the water in mast list. This is also with only capsizes, no turtles.

I've spoken to Hans about this, and we think we know what the problem is: most likely a leak at the top of the diamond wires. This would be consistent with what we experienced, and would also explain why Ann didn't notice any water coming out of the tip of the mast when lifting it from the rescue boat.

I'll know more when I've had a look this weekend.

Paul

Don't give up on JP's stealth Carbon masts for watertight , I got one on my stealth 18sxl and put it through thorough inversion testing last year including total upsy doon testing , not a drop , infact to my embarrassment at Grafham fast cats , capsized - onto side , got trap hook stuck on uphill edge of trampelene and was left dangling my shapely 18 plus stone 8foot off the water , wishing the mast wasn't soo bouyant , boat wouldnt capsize any further !!! to let me unentangle myself , boom too far away to stand on , guys inrescue boat were pissin themselves , but somehow I managed to free my bulk eventually and then right boat .
Final test was last race of season when I managed a bows over stern job landing completly upside down , it was amazing to feel the mast lifting the boat onto its side without my help despite my 18 stone on upside down tramp !

Well done JP with mine - so far no leaks, being a superstitous sailor i firmly grasp my wooden desk whilst saying this!