Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific #96490
01/18/07 06:41 AM
01/18/07 06:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Blame this on Robi and Terry! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

" We come to waves now, near land and far out [said Abera]. The main swell, nao bangaki [nao- wave or swell] comes from the South; it is big and low and does not break; it is independent of the trade wind. If you are in a canoe bound from Onotoa to Tabiteuea [about north-north-west] you feel it as a slow heave that rolls the canoe a little from the port side. This swell can be detected over all the seas."- We, the Navigators page 182

More to come, lots more! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

--Advertisement--
Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: fin.] #96491
01/18/07 07:35 AM
01/18/07 07:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Is this comming from a novel? Maybe a science fiction book? LOL!!!!

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Robi] #96492
01/18/07 07:48 AM
01/18/07 07:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Check with your local library! It's in the non-fiction section! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: fin.] #96493
01/18/07 08:10 AM
01/18/07 08:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Quote
Check with your local library! It's in the non-fiction section! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Sorry but that does not answer my question. What is this comming from? What is the source?

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Robi] #96494
01/18/07 08:24 AM
01/18/07 08:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 116
41.32 N, 81.35 W
Stuart_Douglas Offline
member
Stuart_Douglas  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 116
41.32 N, 81.35 W
Quote
Sorry but that does not answer my question. What is this comming from? What is the source?


Pete listed the literary reference at the end of the quote he posted. It's from We, the navigators , and sounds like a very interesting read.

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Robi] #96495
01/18/07 08:27 AM
01/18/07 08:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
We, the Navigators is a book written by David Lewis, published in 1972. He draws his information from the written record of the first European explorers to visit the Pacific and from conversations with the last of the Pacific navigators still living in modern times.

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: fin.] #96496
01/18/07 09:52 AM
01/18/07 09:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Quote
We, the Navigators is a book written by David Lewis, published in 1972. He draws his information from the written record of the first European explorers to visit the Pacific and from conversations with the last of the Pacific navigators still living in modern times.
Is that when they thought the world was flat? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Robi] #96497
01/18/07 10:28 AM
01/18/07 10:28 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
Quote
Quote
We, the Navigators is a book written by David Lewis, published in 1972. He draws his information from the written record of the first European explorers to visit the Pacific and from conversations with the last of the Pacific navigators still living in modern times.
Is that when they thought the world was flat? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


No its when they were eating each other.

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: fin.] #96498
01/18/07 11:39 AM
01/18/07 11:39 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I read We the Navigators when prepping for my first trans-Atlantic. It was a pleasure to study and provided techniques that actually worked in the field.

"Expanded landfall" comes in handy spotting particular clouds over islands at vast distances.

"Star course" is a terrific technique of learning the sequence of stars that rise or set on a particular heading. Steering by the stars is considerably easier and more accurate than steering by copass.

Reflected waves didn't work for me, but wave profiles for various current vs. wind conditions is valid.

Regards
Chet

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: ] #96499
01/18/07 12:09 PM
01/18/07 12:09 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
If you guys are interested in navigation, I read quite an interesting book a few years ago that I would highly recommend:

Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time

by Dava Sobel


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: ejpoulsen] #96500
01/18/07 04:19 PM
01/18/07 04:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 131
Scotland
George_Malloch Offline
member
George_Malloch  Offline
member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 131
Scotland
Quote
If you guys are interested in navigation, I read quite an interesting book a few years ago that I would highly recommend:

Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time

by Dava Sobel


And if you ever get to London, John Harrison's clocks are in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich. Amazing machines!

Oops! Edited to say that they're actually in Greenwich Royal Observatory and not in the NMM - but you HAVE to go to both so it doesn't really matter!

Last edited by George_Malloch; 01/18/07 07:01 PM.

Stealth www.peyc.org.uk
Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: George_Malloch] #96501
01/18/07 05:14 PM
01/18/07 05:14 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
I was just in London but didn't have time to see famous machines--I'll catch it next time.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Robi] #96502
01/18/07 05:36 PM
01/18/07 05:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Actually that would be :

That is time when in a show of power the Church tried to make everyone believe the worlds was flat. In maritime circles however the knowledge that the world was a sphere was retained as accurate ever since its discovery. How do we know that now ?

Because of what use are latitude lines and sextants if the world was actually flat ?

Lets see if anybody knows the answer to this question.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Robi] #96503
01/18/07 06:15 PM
01/18/07 06:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote
Quote
We, the Navigators is a book written by David Lewis, published in 1972. He draws his information from the written record of the first European explorers to visit the Pacific and from conversations with the last of the Pacific navigators still living in modern times.
Is that when they thought the world was flat? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


WAS flat <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />!?

You got me Wout, I do not know. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Tikipete; 01/18/07 06:16 PM.
Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Wouter] #96504
07/07/07 01:47 PM
07/07/07 01:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Puerto Rico
B
BLS Offline
stranger
BLS  Offline
stranger
B

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Puerto Rico
If the world was indeed flat the measured angle to any star would remain the same no matter where you were on the flat world. Because the globe is actually round the measured angle to any star changes as you move towards or away from it. For example the angle to the north star gets smaller (in relation to Horizontal) as you go further south. This would not happen on a flat world. This is just basic geometry stuff.

BLS

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: BLS] #96505
07/07/07 03:06 PM
07/07/07 03:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Exactly !

Because Mariners stuck to latitude lines and measurement devices like the sextant we know that part of European society retained the conviction that the world was round ever since that fact was discovered by the ancient greeks. In midevil times this was a tightly kept "trade" secret as you would be beheaded by the church it you ever decided to share this knowlegde with the world.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: BLS] #96506
07/08/07 09:33 AM
07/08/07 09:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
If the world was indeed flat the measured angle to any star would remain the same no matter where you were on the flat world. Because the globe is actually round the measured angle to any star changes as you move towards or away from it. For example the angle to the north star gets smaller (in relation to Horizontal) as you go further south. This would not happen on a flat world. This is just basic geometry stuff.

BLS


I don't understand that. If the world were a pancake but were still circling the sun and rotating on an axis and oscillating on that axis, wouldn't you still get different angles to the stars?

Also, if the Earth were a pancake, would places like Australia and China actually be places we could get to with a really good posthole digger? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Mary] #96507
07/08/07 12:18 PM
07/08/07 12:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Puerto Rico
B
BLS Offline
stranger
BLS  Offline
stranger
B

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Puerto Rico
Mary,

The answer is to you fisrt question is maybe. The church also said that not only that the world was flat but that it was the center of the universe and that everything revolved around it. If the universe revolved around the flat earth on an axis perpendicular to the plane of the flat earth than all the stars would always have the same angle in reference to the horizon no matter where you were or what time of night you took the measurements, they would all appear to just go around the sky at the same height from the horizon. If the universe revolved on a different plane then all the stars would appear to change angles during the night.

The answer to your second question is probably no. I have never seen anybody small enough to fit down a hole the diameter that a pole digger would make. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

BLS

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: BLS] #96508
07/08/07 02:52 PM
07/08/07 02:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
The answer to your second question is probably no. I have never seen anybody small enough to fit down a hole the diameter that a pole digger would make.


All I know is that I was told from early childhood that if I started digging a hole in my yard in Ohio and dug it deep enough, I would end up in China. I'm surprised nobody has yet dug a tunnel to smuggle in goods from China and bypass customs and import duty.

Why should we go around the outside of the globe, when we can take a shortcut through the middle?

Maybe we could set up vacuum tubes to suck products back and forth from one side of the world to the other. Maybe people, too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: The ancient art of landfinding in the Pacific [Re: Mary] #96509
07/08/07 03:16 PM
07/08/07 03:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote

Why should we go around the outside of the globe, when we can take a shortcut through the middle?



Last time I heard, scientific thought was that the center of the Earth is a glob of molten iron a few thousand miles in diameter.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Damon Linkous, phill, Rolf_Nilsen 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 440 guests, and 92 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1