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SCHRS Rule Management Group #98492
02/08/07 04:19 AM
02/08/07 04:19 AM
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scooby_simon Offline OP
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All,

We have been given the go-ahead from the ISAF to formally announce the formation of the "SCHRS Rule Management Group".

Please see formal announcement below.

Quote
As people may be aware, a number of people have been reviewing the
SCHRS rule. Jason Smithwick, ISAF committee member, recently attended
the ISAF Annual meetings in Finland and at these meetings it was recognised
that an International SCHRS “Rule Management Group" should be formed.
This group reports to the chair of the ISAF equipment committee and while
informal at present, it will be ratified by ISAF council at the next annual
meeting in 2007. This group is formed thus:

Simon Longstaff – Chairperson, U.K.
Olivier Bovyn - ISAF Rep., France
Colin Whitehead – Member, South Africa
Olly Harris -Technical, U.K.
Jason Smithwick - ISAF Rep. and Technical, U.K.
David Chivers -Measurer
Simon Forbes - ISAF Staff
Other mainland European representative
Other U.S./ Australasian

This group will be charged with the day-to-day running, administration,
application and development of the ISAF SCHRS rule. The group have made
good progress on an initial set of amendments and are continuing to work on
revisions to the rule. The group are planning to have these complete and
ready for submission to ISAF in time for adoption by early spring 2007.


We are currently in the process of re-working the www.schrs.com website. I can be contacted via the SCHRS website if there are any questions.


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Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: scooby_simon] #98493
02/08/07 05:08 AM
02/08/07 05:08 AM
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Wouter Offline
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Ehhm, how can I best put this ?

Since we are at the formation stage of the committee, does this mean that the modifications to SCHRS will not presented to the public soon.

Afterall, between the formation of a task group and the final publication of results often are many intermediate approval stages, all of which in ISAF terms take very long to complete.

I remember it took ISAF 3 to 4 years to announce the youth boat after having their trials at Quiberon.

Or am I wrong in this as I really do hope I am.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: Wouter] #98494
02/08/07 06:15 AM
02/08/07 06:15 AM
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scooby_simon Offline OP
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Quote

Ehhm, how can I best put this ?

Since we are at the formation stage of the committee, does this mean that the modifications to SCHRS will not presented to the public soon.

Afterall, between the formation of a task group and the final publication of results often are many intermediate approval stages, all of which in ISAF terms take very long to complete.

I remember it took ISAF 3 to 4 years to announce the youth boat after having their trials at Quiberon.

Or am I wrong in this as I really do hope I am.

Wouter


Wouter, you know the answer to that question. As I have said MANY times, we are waiting for signoff from the ISAF for the revised rule set. This signoff is expected in the next couple of weeks.

The group has been working in the background for months (as you also know).

We have prototyped the new rules (as you know).

We have revised the rules (as you know).

We have submitted this to the ISAF (as you know).

We are waiting for formal sign-off (as you know).


I spoke to you on Skype sometime ago about this.

You replied to my answer(about pole lengths) last time about this here

Quote


Sorry Scooby,

Was out of line here.

I should have remembered.

Wouter

Last edited by scooby_simon; 02/08/07 06:26 AM.
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: scooby_simon] #98495
02/08/07 09:53 AM
02/08/07 09:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 117
Northern VA
bsquared Offline
member
bsquared  Offline
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Northern VA
Just looking at some of the numbers:

F18s at 1.01, which is the same as Hurricane 5.9 (almost the same boat as the Hobie 20 over here)

Hurricane 5.9 (no spin) is the same as the Hurricane 5.9 SX (spin) and only slightly slower than Hurricane 5.9 Sport (also spin). Both the spin versions are heavier, but not greatly so.

Over here the Tigers are about 4% faster than the 20s, and I suspect this is mostly due to the chute. This system seems to have very little penalty for carrying the chute. Am I missing something?

Thanks!

Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: bsquared] #98496
02/08/07 10:09 AM
02/08/07 10:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
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scooby_simon Offline OP
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Quote
Just looking at some of the numbers:

F18s at 1.01, which is the same as Hurricane 5.9 (almost the same boat as the Hobie 20 over here)

Hurricane 5.9 (no spin) is the same as the Hurricane 5.9 SX (spin) and only slightly slower than Hurricane 5.9 Sport (also spin). Both the spin versions are heavier, but not greatly so.

Over here the Tigers are about 4% faster than the 20s, and I suspect this is mostly due to the chute. This system seems to have very little penalty for carrying the chute. Am I missing something?

Thanks!


Remember yuo are quoting old numbers.

Nope, the 5.9 is very quick with and without the kite.

5.9 with the kite has more lard and less Jib, this balances out. When the 5.9sx was designed, they added just enough weight to make it rate the same as the standard 5.9.


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Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: bsquared] #98497
02/08/07 10:10 AM
02/08/07 10:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
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Dermot  Offline
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Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Quote
Just looking at some of the numbers:

F18s at 1.01, which is the same as Hurricane 5.9 (almost the same boat as the Hobie 20 over here)

Hurricane 5.9 (no spin) is the same as the Hurricane 5.9 SX (spin) and only slightly slower than Hurricane 5.9 Sport (also spin). Both the spin versions are heavier, but not greatly so.

Over here the Tigers are about 4% faster than the 20s, and I suspect this is mostly due to the chute. This system seems to have very little penalty for carrying the chute. Am I missing something?
Thanks!

The 5.9SX has a smaller jib. This was done purposely to give it the same number as the standard 5.9

Last edited by Dermot; 02/08/07 10:11 AM.

Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: Dermot] #98498
02/08/07 10:14 AM
02/08/07 10:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
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I might be wrong, but I think that the Sport has the Tornado jib, which is also a bit smaller than the standard 5.9 jib.


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: Dermot] #98499
02/08/07 10:20 AM
02/08/07 10:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
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scooby_simon Offline OP
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Quote
I might be wrong, but I think that the Sport has the Tornado jib, which is also a bit smaller than the standard 5.9 jib.


There have been 3 evolutions of the 5.9 with a kite

1, Standard rig with kite
2, Standard mainsail with Tornado Jib (not a self tacker) and kite
3, The Hurricane 5.9sx has standard mainsail, SX jib which is in a selftacker and kite


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Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: scooby_simon] #98500
02/08/07 10:50 AM
02/08/07 10:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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I'm not claiming that I don't know any of this. I'm just wondering for how long ISAF procedures are going to stall effectuating the new system.

A perfect legitimate question. I really don't have an axe to grind here.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: Wouter] #98501
02/08/07 10:57 AM
02/08/07 10:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Quote
I really don't have an axe to grind here.


Presumably because it's already been ground away to nothing......


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: Wouter] #98502
02/08/07 11:25 AM
02/08/07 11:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
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scooby_simon Offline OP
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Quote


I'm not claiming that I don't know any of this. I'm just wondering for how long ISAF procedures are going to stall effectuating the new system.

A perfect legitimate question. I really don't have an axe to grind here.

Wouter


How many times do I have to say that we are just waiting for formal ISAF sign-off of the new rules. This is EXPECTED so that the new rules can be adopted for the beginning of the sailing season in the northern hemisphere.

I have said this so many times that the keys on my keyboard are wearing out.

We said from the beginning we were aiming for a new rule for the start of the sailing season for the northern hemisphere.

Originally we hoped we would be able to release the proposals before we had sign-off from the ISAF - this was not possible.

The only hoop we have left is to get sigh-off from the ISAF.

Wouter, I think you have ground your axe down !


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: scooby_simon] #98503
02/08/07 02:26 PM
02/08/07 02:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
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Wouter Offline
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GEEZ !

Quote

How many times do I have to say that we are just waiting for formal ISAF sign-off of the new rules.



This is in your own words exactly the point I was making.

Now don't shoot the messenger.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: Wouter] #98504
02/08/07 03:01 PM
02/08/07 03:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
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scooby_simon Offline OP
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Quote

GEEZ !

Quote

How many times do I have to say that we are just waiting for formal ISAF sign-off of the new rules.



This is in your own words exactly the point I was making.

Now don't shoot the messenger.

Wouter


But you are asking the same question over and over, and I have given the same answer. we are planning to implement the rules for the opening of the season, and thus we have submitted the rules for the OK from the ISAF and then we wait for the next meeting. The ISAF will not have a meeting just to OK the SCHRS rules, we wait for the next meeting. I've always said we were aiming for the spring, this is what we will achieve (assuming we get signoff). The ISAF have not been stalling us, this is all going exactly to plan as I set out months ago.

Wouter, you are an engineer I believe, I assume at some point you design things, I assume at some point you have to get these designs signed off before they go into production, I would assume the Submission/sign-off/implementation process would be well known to you.


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I also talk sport here
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: scooby_simon] #98505
02/09/07 12:05 AM
02/09/07 12:05 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 61
davidtugwell Offline
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What is the reasoning for all the secrecy about the new schrs ratings? Why can't the new ratings be published? What difference does it make to allow the rank and file to see the suggestions before they are set in stone? There might even be a sensible comment from one of us before the "signing off". I assume that once they are approved there will be little chance of changing them for a number of years. What do you think?


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Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: davidtugwell] #98506
02/09/07 02:47 AM
02/09/07 02:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
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scooby_simon Offline OP
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Quote
What is the reasoning for all the secrecy about the new schrs ratings? Why can't the new ratings be published?


(stock answer No 1) We have to get sign off from the ISAF for or changes first.

Quote
What difference does it make to allow the rank and file to see the suggestions before they are set in stone? There might even be a sensible comment from one of us before the "signing off".


See above; we have a number of people from the sailing world that we have discussed these changes with before we proposed them to the ISAF.



Quote
I assume that once they are approved there will be little chance of changing them for a number of years. What do you think?


Incorrect, we have a rolling item on the ISAF Equipment CTTE agrenda. we will be revising the rules annually (Assuming revisions are needed).


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: SCHRS Rule Management Group [Re: scooby_simon] #98507
02/09/07 04:13 AM
02/09/07 04:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Well, I'll get my coat then ....

Didn't mean to start a fight over this, nor do I feel like continuing it.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
RYA PY's [Re: scooby_simon] #98508
02/20/07 03:19 PM
02/20/07 03:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
W
wirebound Offline
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Posts: 64

Re: RYA PY's [Re: wirebound] #98509
02/21/07 09:26 AM
02/21/07 09:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
couldn't resist it
Codblow Offline
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Codblow  Offline
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couldn't resist it
and ???,, doesn't actually specify what mode of spinnaker .

schrs rates them different too
H5.9 stan Jib + spin 0.99
H5.9 Tor Jib + spin 1.00
H5.9sx sx Jib + spin + extra weight 1.01
H5.9 Standard no spin 1.01

for what hats worth all said before and all due to possible change with Scooby's revised SCHRS rule

ISAF International Measurers Conference [Re: Codblow] #98510
02/21/07 10:16 AM
02/21/07 10:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
W
wirebound Offline
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wirebound  Offline
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W

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Posts: 64
From the Daily Sail, So I assume that they had a small chat about SCHRS?

ISAF held their International Measurers Conference at the weekend
The ISAF International Measurers Conference took place over the weekend, with Race Officials from 20 nations gathering in Southampton, Great Britain. The latest in a series of Conferences in the ISAF Race Officials Programme provided a forum for some of the top IMs around the world to exchange ideas and debate the key issues surrounding an often overlooked area of officialdom.

Re: ISAF International Measurers Conference [Re: wirebound] #98511
02/21/07 02:41 PM
02/21/07 02:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
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scooby_simon Offline OP
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Quote
From the Daily Sail, So I assume that they had a small chat about SCHRS?

ISAF held their International Measurers Conference at the weekend
The ISAF International Measurers Conference took place over the weekend, with Race Officials from 20 nations gathering in Southampton, Great Britain. The latest in a series of Conferences in the ISAF Race Officials Programme provided a forum for some of the top IMs around the world to exchange ideas and debate the key issues surrounding an often overlooked area of officialdom.


Maybe....

Hopefully it will all be out in the next couple of days. I've a shed load of work on(bed at 1.30am last night and up at 05:45), but I am trying to get it all together and out as soon as.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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