OK, I'm now looking at a '93 Boyer, Kevlar hulls, carbon rudders and daggers, alum beams and mast, 170 lbs, Kevlar main ('96?), trailer, asking $3700. Looks to be in very good condition, stored inside. He's racing a Tiger and not getting to use the A much.
Does this seem to be a reasonable price for this boat? It would suit me fine. Thanks for the input!

Dave

Where?

Don't know if this helps you or not: in mid 2006 I paid $8.5K for a Boyer built in Aug 2000 with 2 mains (one essentially new), a Kinder yard cover, a Seitech dolly, and no trailer.

$3700 sounds like a good deal to me. Pretty close to min weight. Plus a trailor

the Kevlar main is probably shot, but a new sail would be a nice upgrade. Or a sligthly used one.

Sounds like a good boat, good price, lot's of fun.

Grab it!! (or let me know where its at so I can grab it) Ed

I would invest a little more and get a boat with a carbon mast. besides the joy sailing it, its much easier to raise and lower singlehanded and the boat is easier to righten too!

I missed the aluminum mast part.

Much likelyhood of finding an affordable carbon mast at some time in the future? Should I pursue the '96 Bimare for $4K?

Dave

First, I would probably go with the newer Bimare than the older one. I also have a 96 Waterat that is being rebuilt right now. New Paint job, new main beam, carbon mast a choice of sails depending upon what you want to spend. 1 Ulman older with the boat or a New Ulman or Irwin sail 900 and 800 respectively. The sail of choice these days seems to be the Glaser Sails as cut for Lars Guck. I know that there are probably 4-5 other sailmakers that are truly competitive. Ashby and Landerburger are the other two predominant sails available. My boat will be ready in April, possibly March if I get back to work on it. What is your budget. If I remember correctly, you were in the 4000 range. I still say keep your eye on usaca.info for boats as they come available.

hi dave,

its a difficult question. in theory both boats are old and from experience I would rate and expect the quality of the boyer higher than that of the bim. if there is a 2nd hand market for carbon masts and sails, upgrading the boyer later might be a good idea. alu masts are out of use for a long time already, so nearly impossible to find a newer sailcut on the 2nd hand market for these.

the bim comes with a carbon mast which I treat as a plus. depending on the brand it might not be the most reliable one so. bimare/bandini have quite some history for mast breaking easy, but than again if this mast lasted already 11 years it might be a solid one. basically it comes down to boatshandling. most mast break in capsizes or pitchpoles... and you can be lucky your mast can deal with that abuse or not... but it needs the sailor and conditions to create that situation first :-)

really no clue if the alu spar is more durable than the bim carbon spar? maybe someone has knowledge about it?

what I like onb carbon, even a broken mast can be fixed again. that is actually also a good source for looking for a 2nd hand package. I once bought a repaired broken marstroem spar (so also a marstroem can break ;-) ) with a landenberger sail (both 1 season old) for around 2.000 US$ and while having an undamaged identical mast as well, I mostly raced the repaired one. It was slightly stiffer which was favourable.

If you are not in a hurry, maybe Tom's advice to wait and see is not such a bad choice... while on the other hand both offers do not sound too bad too ;-)

Thanks Dirk! And Tom, everyone really. This is just the kind of advice I was hoping for. I'd really like to have a carbon mast, but feel more comfortable with the Boyer platform. Haven't seen the Bimare yet, supposedly well cared for. I do want a mast that a good sail can be built for, and would love to be able to be downstream of you racers who are willing to part with lightly used sails. So the aluminum mast is a concern. And I'd like to travel with the boat some, so the lighter weight of the carbon mast is also preferable. It's not apparent to me at this time whether I'm likely to find an affordable carbon mast within the next couple of years when I might want to upgrade. I have been watching the usca site for about 6 months, and there just haven't been that many boats in my price range, out west. So advice to be patient seems wise, though difficult to follow. Haven't been sailing since October, and the thought of a fun new boat to play with keep me vibrating!
Tom, I PM'd you. Thanks everyone!

Dave

dave, if you are more on the light side of crewweight, the bim might also be fine. if you are heavier the boyer hulls are surely more solid build.

is it difficult to resell a boat? if not you can buy one now and if you are not satisfied resell it when another boat suits more your demands.

dont know the us market but bim had another mainhook system (a plate with a pin) than the australian and dutch masts. also bending was different.later bims like the javelin do not have the pin any longer. also the beam distances on a bim were different, so basically if you want to put a godall sail on a bim mast you might have to go through some changes...
if bim is popular and there is an active 2nd hand bim sail market, your are not that heavy, I would probably go with the bim. if not, I would try to negotiate a lower price for the boyer. is it a mk3 or still mk2? with the alu mast you might still have an argument to lower the price. if the seller doesn't accept, at least you tried and waiting for a better package might feel a little easier :-)

maybe you can also place a 'wanted' to the a-cat website? some people might think about selling but don't take the initiative to post their boat and don't like to get called by many people but might respond to a specific add.

anyhow good luck!

Dave,

After reading Durks responce it reminded me that the previous owner of the Bim had to tip the bopat over every time he put up and took down the sail. I never looked into the problem, just that it was a pain in the ***. I think the owner of the Boyer has a carbon mast that he is willing to sell with his boat (for a higher price).
Also, the Bim you are looking at is pre what everyone here has responded to. It is different from the Jav I and XJ build quality.

Thanks Dirk,
I'm only 155 lbs, so your advice on considering the bim is appreciated. Jerome said his '93 Boyer was a Mk III, though when pressed, I don't think he knew the difference. Nor do I, what is the difference, how can I determine which one it is? I've seen an ad for a a '96 Boyer which said it was a MKII. So I wonder.
Your urging to just buy a boat and get something more sophisticated later also sits well. And I'm not opposed to spending some more money on it at a later date, to find a deal on a mast and sail like you found is also appealing.
so is negotiating without needing to buy any particular boat. And I'll place wanted ads in a few places. Keep spitting out advice as it comes to you. Anyone else think of things to look for on either of these boats, weaknesses or problems to watch for? Thanks!

Dave 509 276 6355

Dave:

Good Luck on with whichever you choose. We have a REAL good A fleet class here at HYC. I think when I get ready I am going to have Lars Guck built me a DK-17, as I run between 200-220 up and down.

Doug

Doug,

I cannot think of a better person than Lars to have build your DK-17. Quality is what you will get.

Lars does good work, you'll be happy with the result. He redid an HT for Peter Johnstone and it was fast and very nicely finished.

The first step is to talk to Steve Clark about using his molds.

Peter's HT was indeed a remarkable (stunning, actually) boat. Even knowing a lot of extremely detail-oriented, DIY-rigger neat-freaks, I have never seen a boat better put together and finished. If the rumours on the beach were true, however, I've also never seen a more expensive beach cat. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />