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P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison #99478
02/21/07 09:30 AM
02/21/07 09:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline OP
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Andinista  Offline OP
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Santiago, Chile
Hi, please help me with some advice for a friend, he is looking for a used and rather cheap cat, and most common opportunities here are P16 and Nacra 5.0. I konw the Nacra and it fits most of his interests, how does a P16 compare?

He has no competition interests and wants a boat not too sensitive to pitchpoling and easy to get in and out of the water.

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Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: Andinista] #99479
02/21/07 11:04 AM
02/21/07 11:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
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gree2056  Offline
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I have never sailed on either but I have been around a p16. They look fun but also they look heavy. Has he thought about a Hobie 16 or 17. Both those boats are pretty good boats and can be found cheap. The 16 catchs a bad rep about pitchpoling but in reality it isn't that bad. It is just weight sensitive which actually makes it a fun boat to sail because you movements matter.

There was talk on here about the 5.0 not to long ago, you might search for it. It is a pretty nice high performance boat.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: gree2056] #99480
02/21/07 11:59 AM
02/21/07 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
I've sailed both, the 5.0 felt faster, maybe it's lighter. If he's not going to race it, he should get which ever one is in better shape, sails, rig, etc. Both are good boats for play. Neither one will pitch you quite like a Hobie 16 can! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: Andinista] #99481
02/22/07 08:45 PM
02/22/07 08:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 364
Andrew Offline
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It's a complete toss-up. The boats are essentially equal in speed, buoyancy, pointing, and weight capacity. The small differences: Nacra must "foot" rather than point high to the wind; it doesn't matter as the lower angle is compensated by extra speed, and both boats will arrive at the weather mark (equally sailed, with equal sails) at almost the same time. I think the Nacra has a slightly higher maximum speed potential, and I KNOW it's a wetter boat - many is the time I've come in from a windy sail on my 5.O with the mainsail soaked with water up to the spreader on the mast, and without ever flipping too! Oh yeah, it's slightly more difficult to flip the 5.O.

PS: Just re-read the original post. The 5.O is definitely more resistant to pitchpoling. Altho I've never PPed either boat, I've worried more on the Prindle, and I've buried my 5.O to the main beam MANY times. Again, good luck.


Andrew Tatton Nacra 20 "Wiggle Stick" #266 Nacra 18 Square #12
Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: Andrew] #99482
02/23/07 10:05 AM
02/23/07 10:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 168
San Diego
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hokie Offline
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San Diego
From purely an aesthetic standpoint the Nacra looks a lot more modern. I also like the boomless main. The portsmouth numbers suggest speed is similar between a lot of 16 foot boardless cats. Prindle 16, Nacra 5.0, G-cat 5.0, Hobie 16, etc.

Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: hokie] #99483
02/23/07 10:28 AM
02/23/07 10:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
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Another thing I would like to add is kinda along the same lines as the last guy. The 5.0 is very modern looking....sadly that might matter a little to people. I mean I see a P16 or a H16 and think...huh look at that old boat even when it might be a new model. But the 5.0 is shaped like some of the hot boats out there right right now. That was a big influence for me the buy the 5.2 rather than a Hobie 17 or 18.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: gree2056] #99484
02/23/07 12:47 PM
02/23/07 12:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline OP
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Andinista  Offline OP
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Very clarifying, thanks!
I am very happy with my Nacra in fact. I rebuilt it almost from scratch and I think its simplicity is also an advantage when repairs are needed. The only thing I don´t like is it´s unability to point high. In that respect,considering that there are no 5.2 available down here, I see the H17 as a good alternative (thinking in upgrading mine now). Even if it´s bigger, it appears to be light and I understand it is not much different in terms of buoyancy and crew weight, is that right?

Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: Andinista] #99485
02/23/07 03:12 PM
02/23/07 03:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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Hey, don't give up on pointing high with a boardless boat. I sail solo in a shallow area with a LOT of boardless boats and lots of skilled sailors sailing them. Experience will teach you how to make your boat point high. Hans Geisler will can outpoint most any boat on his old GCat 5 meter because he sails it correctly.

I've owned a Prindle-16, SuperCat 17 and a Mystere 5.0. Each hull is boardless but each is RADICALLY different in how it’s hull is cut and how it gets the job done. Each requires a VERY different touch to make them point high. On each boat it took me nearly a year to have some magic moment, some lightning bolt from Neptune, where I discovered the ever-so-subtle trick for pointing high on that particular boat. I can say with some certainty that I now can point as high as any boardless boat and as high as most board boats sailed by "average" sailors.

What is the trick? Relentless attention to weight placement to point high without pinching. EVERY wind shift, every lift, every head, you must adjust weight position. Move FORWARD and I mean WAY forward to point. Stop adjusting the sail and start adjusting your weight. On the SuperCat I lived with one foot forward of the front beam. I'm solo remember. The Mystere was the most rewarding for performance gains due to weight balance and it’s just like your N5.0 (skegs). With the slightest lift you sheet IN on a puff and slide forward, trap low, and drive the bows down, down, down while steering the boat up, up, up. Do NOT chicken out and sheet out on puffs. Anticipate the lifts or puffs and move forward early. Rookies always sit back and show their bows. Instead, bury the bow and show everyone your transom. Of course, you’ll get killed doing this on a Hobie 16.

Foot off? No...I gave that up. You only need that because you killed your speed avoiding a lift/puff. Footing is speed in the wrong direction. Footing and/or sheeting out is like a rookie skiing. When learning to ski, you foolishly turn up the hill to slow down, reducing power and killing speed. Recovery is slow and you’re going across the hill, not down. Then one day you’ll learn that it is the TURN ITSELF that slows you down, regardless of direction. Now you turn hard DOWN the hill to slow down, directly into the power! Now when you ski you turn down the STEEPEST part of the hill to slow down. The power is increasing when your speed momentarily decreases. When you ease up on the turn, acceleration is instantaneous, fierce, hot! Same in surfing…stall in the pocket, then punch it to go like hell. Like a flywheel…store it up for later release.

Upwind, it’s like wild thing downwind. NEVER lose speed, drive into power, not away. When the wind blows, go right at it, go after it, point high, bear away slightly, and point up again. Squeeze the lemon…

Sorry, I’m getting all excited. Nipples hard, the whole deal. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Time to go sailing!

Anyway, point high.
Sail fast, take chances, safety third.

Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: David Parker] #99486
02/26/07 12:41 PM
02/26/07 12:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline OP
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Andinista  Offline OP
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Santiago, Chile
Hey, thanks a lot, that´s good info!
And I love to ski too!

Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: Andinista] #99487
02/27/07 07:58 AM
02/27/07 07:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
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I think that the 5.2 has more floatation than the Hobie 17. I am not sure but I hear people talk about worrying about overloading the 17 while the 5.2 can handle alot of weight.

I would look around for a 5.2, granted they are no longer made but neither is the Hobie 17. THey are once again canceling production on it. The 5.2 looks a little more modern and you don't have to worry about the 17's bad sails.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: gree2056] #99488
02/27/07 08:52 AM
02/27/07 08:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
DougSnell Offline
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Seabrook, TX
Guys:

I have put three adults and a child on my 17 and it STILL tried to lift a hull. Yes for racing you will be slow with more than one. BUT I was even moving in very light air with three adults. You just have to know how to sail your boat.

Doug

Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: DougSnell] #99489
02/27/07 09:04 AM
02/27/07 09:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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the question isn't about moving - it's about how much hull is out of the water and how soon the bow will drive in with the extra weight. I've seen a Hobie 18 with eight adults on board...they were moving but there wasn't much hull above the water.


Jake Kohl
Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: Jake] #99490
02/27/07 09:15 AM
02/27/07 09:15 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
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The 17 can handle two adults but you'll have an inch or less of freeboard near the rear crossbeam.

Re: P16 - Nacra 5.0 comparison [Re: MauganN20] #99491
02/27/07 01:02 PM
02/27/07 01:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
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gree2056  Offline
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The 14 can handle two adults but you will hardly have any free board at all. I just have never been around a 17 and don't know what it is capable of.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!

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