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#113318 - 08/01/07 02:30 PM Tacking a Hobie 16  
Joined: Aug 2007
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Ed_Lane Offline
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Ed_Lane  Offline
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Gerona Spain
For the first time in my Hobie sailing life (started in 1981) I am sailing in fairly strong winds, force 5 to 7, before 2 to 4. I am also sailing with a very inexperienced crew. Every tack is a gamble, do we capsize or not. Last time out in about force 6 we capsized in the middle of the tack almost backwards over the leeward rudder. What is going wrong? any suggestions and advice very welcome.

-- Have You Seen This? --
#113319 - 08/01/07 02:41 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: Ed_Lane]  
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mmiller Offline
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California
Basics seem to be...

Weight moves forward during tack. The crew has to hold the jib (backwinded) by hand and can let it fly on a moments notice as the boat may begin to back rapidly due to wave action and gusts. The rudders have to be reversed to back the boat around to the new tack. Main very loose. Jib re-sheeted to new tack as main begins to come in slowly get boat moving before sheeting main harder.


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Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
#113320 - 08/01/07 03:14 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: mmiller]  
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gree2056 Offline
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gree2056  Offline
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Norman,OK
But you shouldn't have to back around like that everytime should you? I know the 14 carries through some tacks.

Oh, I misread this is really high wind, then yeah what MM said.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
#113321 - 08/01/07 08:04 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: gree2056]  
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Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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yeah...high wind is a different ballgame and really tricky with unexperienced crew...no matter what the boat.


Jake Kohl
#113322 - 08/01/07 08:15 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: mmiller]  
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warbird Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
my Windrush was a similar boat with no dagger, a jib etc.
It had a boom sheeted arrangement I just loved for that sort of boat.
It had a six to one that ended in a single ratchet slightly forward of the other block on the boom leaving the sheet hanging right where you could grab it.

In heavy wind I would go into the tack.
as soon as the jib back winded I would go over and as I was passing the tiller around the sheet I would let go the sheet and bring the rudders around for the reverse (By bringing the rudders right across it locks them and they act as break stopping too much reverse) I would let go the tiller arm and flick the jib through.
The boat would start to move forward imediatley losing almost no way.
I would let go the jib and grab the mainsheet with both hands. It would have released about 18 inches.
The rudders would have come back to the centre position and the boat would be sailing a little off the wind and accelerating.
I would hand over hand the main in, keeping the acceleration up and grab the tiller and away.
Very quick, very reliable.

It only became reliable because I went out in wind and practiced it time and time again for a half hour getting the sequence just right.

Last edited by warbird; 08/01/07 08:19 PM.
#113323 - 08/01/07 08:21 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: Ed_Lane]  
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Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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South Carolina
I should add; the capsizing thing is definitely a weight issue - keep your weight forward if you are capsizing backwards. As skipper, keep an eye on the water flowing past the rudders, if you see it stop and begin to reverse, IMMEDIATELY reverse the help and steer the boat backwards. Heavy air / heavy wave tacking just takes a little more thought.


Jake Kohl
#113324 - 08/01/07 08:43 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: Jake]  
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gree2056 Offline
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gree2056  Offline
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Norman,OK
I hated tacking the 14 in heavy air, the new boat on the other hand is a little easier. But still big wind isn't fun.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
#113325 - 08/02/07 01:04 AM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: gree2056]  
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Ed_Lane Offline
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Gerona Spain
Many thanks to all for the advice I will keep practicing.

#113326 - 08/02/07 01:56 AM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: Ed_Lane]  
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jollyrodgers Offline
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maui
few more tips.
go into the tack with speed, tack from the trapeze.
go into the tack on the way up the wave face and cross the eye of the wind at the top of the wave.
don't hang around on the leeward side after it's time to leave.

#113327 - 08/02/07 02:18 AM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: jollyrodgers]  
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warbird Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
Quote
few more tips.
go into the tack with speed, tack from the trapeze.
go into the tack on the way up the wave face and cross the eye of the wind at the top of the wave.
don't hang around on the leeward side after it's time to leave.



good advice

#113328 - 08/02/07 10:44 AM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: warbird]  
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Ed_Lane Offline
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Gerona Spain
Advice sounds very good, thanks. I forgot to add that the sea is always very short irregular chop, no long regular waves.

#113329 - 08/02/07 11:20 AM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: Ed_Lane]  
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mmiller Offline
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A couple more thoughts.

Try to be aware of the waves. Start the tack over the top of one and into the next trough as you go head-to-wind, then as you hit the next wave, the idea would be to have that wave peak help knock you over onto the next tack.

One other thing on backing... you may be able to save a reverse capsize by controlling the rudders better too. Hold them reversed, but if the boat begins to back rapidly, you can "trip" over fully turned rudders. Try to steer the boat in a slower backwards arch. Hard to keep the rudders from going full over, but by pinning the tiller to the deck hard, you can hold the rudders from turning too hard.


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Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
#113330 - 08/02/07 04:35 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: Ed_Lane]  
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shark1 Offline
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Penfield NY
Quote
Last time out in about force 6 we capsized in the middle of the tack almost backwards over the leeward rudder. What is going wrong? any suggestions and advice very welcome.
Sounds to me like your not keeping enough weight forward during your tack - that would allow the bows of your 16 to come to high and since its heavy wind bows high = wind under the tramp - you've been sailing a long time so im sure your aware that the 16 can flip in all 4 directions. if your not racing then the backwinded jib is fine but only for recreational sailing - You cant tack unless you have a good amount of boat speed and everything MUST be sheeted in block to block. Dont be afraid if you go on a hull because the block to block setup rakes your mast back more and you can work the stick better. Once your in tight with good speed ease the rudders gradually adding pressure and make sure your crew sails the jib thru the tack keeping the tale-tales parallel to each other


Shark 1 "Rage" sharkcatamaranclass.org I punch my clown daily
#113331 - 08/02/07 05:27 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: shark1]  
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MarkW_F18 Offline
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Raleigh/ Wrightsville Beach NC
With heavy wind and bad chop, I think a big key is to make sure that your crew backwinds the jib, then set it quickly before you begin to sheet in on the main. Steer off the wind and get some flow going before you try to sheet in tight and point up. If you sheet the main too quick before you get moving, the boat will just round up into the wind again.


Mark Williams
F18 H16
http://emsa-sailing.org
#113332 - 08/04/07 01:25 AM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: MarkW_F18]  
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jollyrodgers Offline
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maui
got 1 more:
the way to backwind the jib is to crack the sheet as the tack begins, but hold it for a sec. on the upwind side of the mast until you are sure the bows are around. there is no reason to think that you will need to back up. the crew can totally get the bows around by babysitting the jib backwind process. as mentioned by others the jib needs to be sheeted to the new side very quickly once the bows are around. not torqued though. save that for once you are fully underway on the new tack.

#113333 - 08/14/07 01:16 PM Re: Tacking a Hobie 16 [Re: warbird]  
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Ed_Lane Offline
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Ed_Lane  Offline
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Gerona Spain
Many thanks to all that gave advice, proved to be very useful, I have now sailed three or four times in around 4 to 5 in rough sea and have tacked successfully. Crew controlling the jib is important, but watching the water over the rudders and backing them as neccessary is definately the answer. Waiting to try in heavier air sure it will be OK.


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