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Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: scooby_simon] #178663
05/18/09 03:53 PM
05/18/09 03:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
You guys are drunk or stoned. What I heard Chuck say was that the 20 had a place in the race as long as there is a fleet, which he intended to reassure 20 owners who had been hearing that the curtain was closing. When he said that maybe the F18 was inevitable, he absolutely was looking into the crystal ball - I agree with him, incidentally. The 20 is headed for the heap... there are other great boats like the Jav, 6.0 and 5.5 there to soften the landing. I'm not being mean - it just happens. Chuck wants international participation to make the event viable - that is a fantasy if you keep the F18 out.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: John Williams] #178664
05/18/09 03:57 PM
05/18/09 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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ThunderMuffin  Offline
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Quote
It is a large expensive logistical nightmare for us who live only 1,000 miles away and can drag, stuff, and trailer our boats, gear, and ground crew to the start line. I can't imagine what it would take to try and make that happen flying across the pond. One thing for sure, however, if they really do want to see an international draw, the race management needs to start working on shipping container packages, sailing package deals, and intend to do a whole lot more planning along the lines of where Worrell was headed.


We at TVS offerred this package. The Pirates team took us up on it, and as far as I could tell, were happy customers.

We also helped out Mischa with a bit of his logistics but not in the same capacity.

Quote
You guys are drunk or stoned. What I heard Chuck say was that the 20 had a place in the race as long as there is a fleet


What we all heard was him saying "I can see this race being F18 only in two years."

I know I wasn't the only one that heard that. A SPECTATOR that was present at the award ceremony expressed to me how she wanted the whole 20 fleet to stand up and leave when he said that!

Whether its a perception/reality thing or not here Jdub, the 20 fleet is definitely reading the writing on the wall, and we're not feelin the bear-hug love dude frown


Last edited by Undecided; 05/18/09 03:58 PM.
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: John Williams] #178665
05/18/09 04:01 PM
05/18/09 04:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
I don't think anyone is even close to suggesting we "keep the F18 out" and I too agree that it is the future of the race. However, it's far too early and I think the race should continue to support both classes until, at least, they start running out of beach and hotel resources. It's better for everyone to have more boats.

I can also live with the handicap and fleet scoring but would prefer to see the handicap part toned down a little from the headlines because it's not representative of the sailors and the racing on the water.


Jake Kohl
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #178666
05/18/09 04:02 PM
05/18/09 04:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
So what do you want that is different than the reality that the race is open to the 20 fleet as long as they show up?


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: John Williams] #178667
05/18/09 04:03 PM
05/18/09 04:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by John Williams
So what do you want that is different than the reality that the race is open to the 20 fleet as long as they show up?


[music] R.E.S.P.E.C.T. [/music] for what the 20 has done for the race so far and the fact that it is the only thing still keeping the race alive.


Jake Kohl
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: Jake] #178668
05/18/09 04:05 PM
05/18/09 04:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
Jake - love ya man, but the 20 didn't do jack for the race. The teams make the race, and the teams have been on several boats over the years. In fact, I would hazard that without the Tybee, MKL and the Steeplechase, the 20 would already be gone.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: Jake] #178670
05/18/09 04:09 PM
05/18/09 04:09 PM

A
andrewscott
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andrewscott
Unregistered
A


This can only be settled by "on the water Jousting"... Saddle up

Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: ] #178671
05/18/09 04:13 PM
05/18/09 04:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Quote
I would hazard that without the Tybee, MKL and the Steeplechase, the 20 would already be gone.


From my post at Velocitysailing.com

Quote
For years, this race has struggled to pull even 10 boats to the starting line. The logistical challenges, the money involved, the preparation needed both physically and financially - it was always difficult, and always monopolizes your life for at least 8 months out of the year. No other race would warrant such an effort. This race is so much more than just a race - its an adventure, and an experience that you cherish for the rest of your life.

For YEARS, the venerable Nacra 20 class has carried this race on its back. It was a symbiotic relationship. The race needs the class to survive, and the class certainly needs the race to survive.

Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: ] #178672
05/18/09 04:17 PM
05/18/09 04:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 828
Greenville, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 828
Greenville, SC
Originally Posted by andrewscott
This can only be settled by "on the water Jousting"... Saddle up


Jdub hasn't ever "jousted" in the Tybee.

Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: NCSUtrey] #178674
05/18/09 04:20 PM
05/18/09 04:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
Not on the water, anyway.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: John Williams] #178675
05/18/09 04:22 PM
05/18/09 04:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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pgp  Offline
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From Grace O'Malley at SA:

"Or since JW was hangin' off his team's boat in 2000, where was that, Kill Devil?? Trying to hold it down, that was too funny.... "

Surely there is proof! "A picture, a picture! My kingdom for a picture."- some ol' dead guy

Last edited by pgp; 05/18/09 04:23 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #178676
05/18/09 04:23 PM
05/18/09 04:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
Jake, you can always speak your mind with me - you've earned my respect. Don't delete posts - you can't hurt my feelings.

Tad - I disagree. The race is run by someone who loves the event and the sailors in it. I guaran-damn-tee you that the boat itself doesn't matter to him. Seperate the emotional attachment - there have been a lot of different boats in the coastal races of May.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: pgp] #178677
05/18/09 04:26 PM
05/18/09 04:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
Pete - I was ground crew. I have never sailed the event am I'm extremely unlikely to do so. I have enduring regard for those who push off the beach - we're incredibly fortunate they have all come back to us safely. The risk to life is staggering and I have looked too deeply into the maw of that darkness.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: John Williams] #178680
05/18/09 04:31 PM
05/18/09 04:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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I suffer from an over active imagination (or too much caffeine). There was a reference to jousting, I was envisioning you as the trusty squire trying to control the charger.

Speaking of jousting, Seth almost skewered me in the ear Saturday! shocked

Last edited by pgp; 05/18/09 04:32 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: John Williams] #178681
05/18/09 04:33 PM
05/18/09 04:33 PM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A


from a spectators point of view:

I could care less what boat is sailed... I could care less who wins.... all i care is that there was good sailing.... exciting pictures, some good video is great! overcoming equip failures... and for goodness sake... MAKE SURE THERE IS ENOUGH GUMBO !!!

and once again: for all involved... Hats off!

Last edited by andrewscott; 05/18/09 04:34 PM.
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: Jake] #178682
05/18/09 04:34 PM
05/18/09 04:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,113
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Posts: 3,113
Annapolis, MD
Jake
I don't think we are far apart... But to be sure... Did you have a problem with how the race was scored this year.
Handicap and in One Design?


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: John Williams] #178683
05/18/09 04:35 PM
05/18/09 04:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 828
Greenville, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 828
Greenville, SC
All I'm saying is, if you don't have any skin in the game, you shouldn't be pulling any strings. Hush.

Cart before the horse? Making it only F18 will not grow the race. Mischa and crew will not come back if it is only an F18 event.

Don't bite the hand that feeds...

Last edited by NCSUtrey; 05/18/09 05:33 PM. Reason: written in anger
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: pgp] #178684
05/18/09 04:35 PM
05/18/09 04:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Quote
there have been a lot of different boats in the coastal races of May.


There have been a lot of different people in it too.

This particular one doesn't want to be shown the door on account of the fact that his boat isn't welcome anymore.

Plus, historical data on the Tybee 500 speaks for itself.

The race wouldn't have happened without the N20, and the N20 wouldn't be as alive as it is without the race.

Why are you so content with consigning the class that has served the race so well to the scrap heap in the dead boat society? I hazard to say that you're reveling in it.


Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: NCSUtrey] #178685
05/18/09 04:37 PM
05/18/09 04:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,279
Long Beach, California
Trey - go forth into the world and collect some wisdom. Save this post of yours to teach you humility and the pain of shame.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Let's throw the N-20 under the bus thread! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #178687
05/18/09 04:55 PM
05/18/09 04:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
What ever happened to the follow on 500, The Atlantic 500? It was supposed to allow the competitors who so chose, to continue racing up to the original VA Beach Worell finish, for the full 1,000 miles, scored as two separate events.

I always thought that was a good way to break up the race and might even draw a few more people in for the north half. Is that second 500 pretty much toast?


Blade F16
#777
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