Jerry,
You're welcome.
Seems like the H170 is getting to be a more attractive boat with the post. Only 30-50 lbs balast is not much indeed. What a great daysailor ! Spinny, planing hull, roomy and not much weight. And fast as somebody in another post commented; she looks pretty as well. One learns something new every week as theysay.
With :"just standing on the rail will put the boat right over and I've test capsized it a couple of times to see how easy it would be to right." If this is the case than I think you should be able to trapeze off a cat very quickly. Mainpoint to learn with trapezing off a cat or skiff is one needs to develop a feel to keep the boat stabil with steering and careful sheeting. I do know a few mono classes with alot more balast and these boat are far more docile or even can not be capsized by a crew on the wire. This is not the case in your situation it seems. I trust that you'll put the boat over when you're one the wire and make a mistake ? If So than I think I will have to correct my opinion back to :"any singlehander will be fine, even modern ones"
>>Regarding adjusting the H170 mast rake, the boat has adjustable chainplates on the upper and lower shrouds but these are only good for adjusting tesion on the rig, not mast rake since the forestay is fixed length and an integral part of the furling jib. The only solution would be to add a shackle above the furling drum to lengthen the forestay but then the helm would likely be unbalanced when sailing sloop rigged.
Actually you need to shorten the forestay when removing the jib. The CE of the mainsail alone must be moved forward when removing the jib and its contribution in the CE. By teh way must sailboats have what is called a Pigtail high in the forestay near the mast. Often replacing this with a chainplate or shorten this and put a chainplate in will allow teh forestay to be adjusted. The pig tail is there as the jib can never go up all the way to the mast and the block / furling drum needs to placed a little away from the mast. May this is a good option on your boat to get the CE right ?
>>>I recently heard someone say that there aren't that many new Inter 17's, FXone's, or F16's being sold these days because many/most of the people buying a modern singlehanded catamaran are buying A Class cats, even if their interests are primarily recreational and not racing.
People say alot of things. A-cat class is doing great no doubt about that and that is good. However A-cats are not really outselling the F16's in the way it is presented. First I would like to add that we are a lot younger than the A's and that we don't have a "replacement" market yet. If a class has a few hundred boats sailing in the world than the class is bound to have a sizable turn-over due to replacing aging boats. It is not realistic to demand simular numbers of a much younger class with significantly less boats around the world. But more importantly the comment suggests that sales are dropping from levels in previous years; This is not correct. I can't speak for the FX-one and I-17R although I think the latter is doing well in the US as well but the F16 class is increasing the number of sales. Also the condition in the comment is not correct. "because many/most of the people buying a modern singlehanded catamaran are buying A Class cats" First all F16 secondhanders are scooped up within the month, this doesn't indicate declining interest to me. Currently we have a little supply side problem for the US. Secondly, our market share is far more based on the 1-up/2-up flexibility. Our builders reported that even singlehanded sailors buying one of these boats always buy the jib setup with it. I know of only one exception to this tendency. The main group interested in the F16 class are recreational sailors with kids or a want to occasionally take somebody else along AND the lighter weight racing crews. We started the class on the first group but lately we see the latter group becoming more and more important. People will blast me for this but I do see the F16 class taking increasing numbers of sailors from current lighter crews class like the Hobie 16 and Dart 18. And this is a completely different segment from what the A-cat does or even can cater for. The a-cat has pretty much achieved its penetration over the last (30) years and the F16 still has a huge potential before it. Therefor I don't really see the A-cat as competing for the same sailors and thus I think the comparison is off. Furthermore I would like to see a cooperation develop between the A-cats and F16 just the one developping between the F18 and F16 class. I think the boats are close enough in performance (without a kite) and it will be enjoyable for the both of us. I think that a combined little event is held in Florida this year. It think that is very cool. But I'm getting off topic.
In short ; F16 and A-cat are not competing for the same sailors and a large portion of the basis for F16 class is drawn from a different segment which the A-cat can not compete for. We are in general NOT seeing declining numbers or even a declining interest. I would argue the opposite on the mails I receive with questions on the boats.
>>>I did not include A Class in my original short list despite the fact that the low weight was very attractive because I thought it might be too fragile and not as well suited for recreational sailing as it is for racing.
I don't think A-cats are fragile. Of course, it is not a Hobie 16 or even an F16, but we shouldn't expect that of this class that is not her focus. But fragile ? No. Before the blasting starts on why I said "Or even an F16" let me explain this. More weight to go into reinforcements and smaller leverage dimensions and the fact it is designed for doublehanded racing makes the F16 stronger. This is not the same as saying the A-cat is fragile or not strong for it's intended use, but it does mean that I wouldn't want to take somebody along or double trapeze of it in 15 knots of wind. That was never the intend of the beast called A-cat. Personally I do think you stand a good chance to find a second hand A-cat for a normal budget. For the F16's you can forget about this; only buying new is your option now and the Dollar exchange rate doesn't help at this time. What is up with this dollar taking a freefall ? But then again all new A-cats have the same problem as they to come from non dollar companies. Now you understand why I really would like to see a US based F16 builder. Again I'm getting of topic.
>>>I had assumed A class sailing characteristics would be quite similar to the FXone/Fox due to what appears to be a similar hull shape.
No, no, don't make that assumption. The differences can actually be quite big. Even the difference between the FX-one and Fox are by some described to be very significant. Even between two A_cat wavepiercers the differences can be really noticable. Test sail each boat and base you decision on that. That is the only dependable way.
>>Is this fundamentally true or is it in fact a more demanding boat to master due to it's lighter weight, requirement for and responsiveness to tuning, and it's need for finnesse as your subsequent post suggests?
It is as simple as this :
-1- more tools = more experience required to tune it correctly
-2- less weight + more power = more skills required to make the boat behave as intended
-3- more low drag designs = more finnesse you need to develop to get the max out of the boat.
How can I explain this. By an example maybe. The speed of a low drag design (lightweight) is more determined by aerodynamic limits of a given rig setting. This means setting the right camber and sheeting angle of the rig. On a boat without these controls like a Prindle 16 there is not much you can do except concentrate on getting the windshifts and laylines right. On an A-cat and F16 a good crew will be able to get a few % more speed out of the conditions as well by being better at approximating the ideal camber sheeting angle combination. This may require the adjustment of the rig by anything from 2 to 5 controls. Some of these controls liek spreader rake need to be set before going out on the water. This requires experience to get it right. For recreational sailing this is not really important as going fast is going fast but in racing it does matter.
>>Anyway, thanks to you and everyone else for the great advice.
You're welcome.
Wouter
