>>>After incorporation and then affiliation with the YA the association then becomes the offifial recognised representative of the "class" at state level, national level and internationally.

But I don't want the AYF to represent us Internationally. They are the AUSTRALIAN yachting Federation and should restrict their meddling to that area. What if the other organisations like the Dutch, English, South African, American, etc all have the same idea ? I want them to be only Aus, NL, UK, SA, US, etc umbrella organisations and stick to their turf.

I'm happy with allowing the AYF to represent us (as a single contact point) for the Government of AUS and the Aus federal states. All the way up to the time they act against our interest. How strong is Hobies influence in the AYF ? Is it trully balanced and independent of the bigger member classes ?

I'm not happy having the AYF represent us in Aus in every respect. We can do that ourself well enough. Towards states and fed Government okay as it is better to present these organisations with a single point of contact but beyond that no thank you.


>>>the class is listed in the yachting authorities records and can have their "program" of events for the next year published in the official program for that year. correspondence to the YA from the association at the end of this year/start of next year as to "state" champions, "national champion", forwarded by the association will be published by the YA and the information will appear in all state yachting "programs" for the next twelve months.

With the current internet infrastructure I'm not impressed by this so much. We can easily get by without AYF playing this role. Okay it is a positive secondairy benefit, but it is not a strong enough argument to incorporate yourself as a class association.


>>And with that "recognition nationally and internationally of those titles ie "state champion" in the F16 "class, or "National champion" or what ever is appropriate.


Sorry, how interesting wether a certain group recognized a certain status of sailors or not. Steve Fosset got the world circumnavigation record but not the Jules Verne throphy because they had a conflict over the prize JV-organisation asked to have them officially recognize the record breaking circumnavigation. Does anyone think the greater public cares ? It was the fastest time around, Period.

And if they want to punish us than we just use different names for our events and keep the spend the money on more effective programs/activities. (Australian F16 challenge, NSW F16 challenge, Vic F16 challenge, Dutch Coast challenge , etc)

We simply do not need official recognition of any national organisation for this. Again a nice fringe benefit but no where near powerfull enough to warrent becoming an official member and part with class money.



>>the association can also apply for any assistance to the YA for the running of majour events,

Give me examples, please. Will they organise an event for us. Supply us with a capable RC for nothing ? Contact clubs for us to open up their club waters for our events ? Or will they just give us a leaflet with pointers on how to conduct an event, with a big section about the punished if we try to be creative ? I'm not in the slightest interested in the last thing.


>>and even for financial assistance for training,

Only for Olympic classes and one or two of our biggest competitors, I guess. Why should WE pay for that ?

Or will they give free RC training to our class officials ?


>>>travel for "class represenatation to international events etc (if there is funding there at YA),

Again only for Olympic classes and one or two of our biggest competitors. Why should WE pay for that ?


>>in fact ALL the benefits that are available to any "legitimate" class association affiliated with the YA.

So what are the benefits ? I can see only at this time : presenting a unified representation to state and federal governmental agencies. The "benefits" aren't worthg much at all.


>>The association becomes "official" and the true and only representative of that "class" ie F16, and no one else can then lay claim to the representation of that class (and steal it for their own personal gain).

I would like to see somebody try. Maybe they can claim the name but they can never steal our current organisation or influence the structure. My experience is that that individual sailors are well aware of which group is which and which. And then we just call ourselfs "The Real F16 class" and leave the other with an empty organisation. Besides our contacts with the builders are far to good to fear them jumping ship. The Same with contact dealing with the Texel and ISAF, Portsmouth handicap ratings.

Now I'm all for laying a more firm claim to the name F16 and Formula 16 but not at the expense of our independence, flexibility and capability of being creative, or very limited financial resources.


>>>The "class then becomes association "owned" (as opposed to a manufacturers owned and controlled "class") which means that the association has full control over the definition of what the class really is and any manufacturer has to conform to those definitions and not make their own changes and arbitarilly declare that any changes that they (the manufacturer) make are then the legal dimensions of the class (as all manufactureres do from time to tome, not for the benefit of the class, but purely for financial reasons)

I challenge they builder to try and alter their F16 beyond the rules. They will quickly find how far the influence of the current class setup goes. A certain Italian builder tried a stunt like that a year ago. We're still here and growing like I don't know what.

I think we must guard against overreacting.

Now that I have finished playing the sceptical advocate of teh devil let me lay down what I think is the right approach :


-1- We must guard against talking ourselfs into an organisation or framework that puts us in their pocket. Once your in somebodies pocket you never get out again.

-2- If we pay for (an organisational) membership I expect the receiving organisation to work for us and act in a customer-client relationship. We're paying them and not the other way around. Any organisation that doesn't underline this setup is better kept far away.

-3- By virtue of point 2 I expect significant influence and well established protection against peddling interests and actions that are detrimental to our class. I expect an umbrella organisation to work on aspects that are equal beneficial to all member classes.

-4- I expect the umbrella organisation to restrict themselfs to thier own turf. AYF going "International representation" on us is not it.

-5- I'm all for full cooperation on safety and event coordination and even presentation to governmental bodies. But beyond that I'm sceptical.

-6- I'm not for an umbrella organisation demanding class infrastructural changes. I see no need to have a secretary at this time as well have no class fees nor an official budget.

-7- I don't like a vendictive umbrella organisation. The kind that threatens to punish event participants when the class organisation doesn't become an official member of their umbrella organisation. This is coercement and their is a reason why they have to punish the participant; their is no legal framework to punish the class organisation to become a paid member of their umbrella organisation. The basic F16 class setup of openess and inclusiveness and the spirit of the rules that stimulate this are INCOMPATIBLE with an umbrella organisation like this.

-8- If a law requires us to become official members than we will but I strongly doubt it.


Why do I have such a harsh stance on this. Partly because of the particular situation that has existed in the Netherlands. Early on in the rise of beach cat our national organisation was a monohull organisation and regarded cats are unsafe boats and worked against the interest of catsailors in every way. A rebelious attitude grew and founded a rival organisation together with three other neglected coastal watersport groups. Now this organisation has eclips the official national organisation fully on these area's and the NFB is fully independent and has it's own links to important governmental deparments. NFB does ONLY represent the common interests and has retained its openness and inclusive stance over the years. She allows the F16 to become silent members for no fee and accepts our voluntary close coordination on the area's of safety and events. So would like us to become paying members but is fully happy to see us cooperate on the important aspects and let us grow and develop on our own initiative. I think that in time the NL F16 class will become a fully paying member of this NFB organisation; knowing that she will not meddle in internal F16 affairs as long as we adhere to the basic rules and commonly accepted practices concerning safety etc. Right now we are recognized as an existing class with specified contact info and mutual updates.

Can the Aussies explain to us to what extend the AYF is reflective of these points and the precendent set by the NFB ?

Regards,

Wouter


P.S. May comments will come across a bit harsh but I trully want to have a good and in depth discussion on this topic before we sign away anthing as a class to a national organisation that eventual may proof to be detrimental to the F16 class.