I think some clarification is in order here :
Seeker wrote :
>>For reasons I do not understand, much of the catamaran community has chosen to ignore his race proven advancements, and still struggle with fundamental design issues that Bill Roberts resolved decades ago…
The reason for this is that Bill is in error concerning several design aspects. It has been discovered by various designers that not all Bill says is actually true. On particular path of error is that Bill sees only one solution to a given problem while any good designer knows that often multiple solutions exist for a given problem and that a few of those achieve identical results. Still he will maintain that his prefered solution is the only one and all others are misguided.
In addition to this you make a few statements that are simply wrong or deceiving.
Topics such as:
>>Why he uses full volume, elliptical shaped bows to dramatically reduce the propensity to pitch pole. A problem that is common with cats having flat fore decks, or cats with insufficient bow volume and flat fore deck such as a Hobie 14 and 16.
Both the H14 and H16 are bad examples of the current state of cat design. Counterexample; nacra Inter 20 and inter 18 have flattish decks near the bow, neither are prone to diving or even has a bad characeristic in this sense. Actually the Tornado hull shape suffers more from a dive tendency than the equal length Inter 20 while the Tornado has more narrow decks and both are flat on top.
Eliptical hulls have been tried by other designers and since then they have moved on to other hullshapes that are superior to the elliptical ones. On big drawback of elliptical crossections seems to be the spray that comes of them.
>>His "Shared lift Concept" to help counter act the effects of sailing with a spinnaker on the helm.
OF which many sailors and designers by now have stated that it is NOT an issue on modern boats. Bill's simplified model assumes that a spinnaker introduces alot of lee helm on spi boat when in fact IT DOESN'T. Believe me, we've been there, tested it and the change in helm is hardly noticable and we used UNBALANCED rudders, so no camoflaging. It's there but SO SMALL that it is NOT a significant issue requiring a dramatic change in hull design. In fact the chance is welcome in that you want a boat to have a very small amount of leehelm under spinnaker. Bill will never accept that.
>>Why he believes wider than trailer able width (8'-6" in the US) is desirable to break the performance barrier that has keep the 8’-6” wide beach cat from going on to the next performance level.
I believe that Cheyenne with beat any 8'6" cat on the market today in all-out speed but that is not the point is it. We are talking about the best beachcat setup with means that things like practical trailoring and overall weight become important considerations. It is not that other designer don't agree with Bill that wider and longer will make a boat faster but that they disagree on what makes a commercial attractive design. I say that the differences in boats sold clearly shows who is more in tune with the market in this respect.
>>His "Self Tacking Jib" system. To help the boat respond faster with more efficiency and less effort.
Is not the superior setup that you make it to be. Other designers have since then progressed on this issue and yet others again are working on improving on these newer setups as well. Bill uses a straight track and that is arguable inferiour. And believe me no amount of special pully system can make a straight track as good as a properly designed curved track.
>>His use of a mast section with sufficient volume (buoyancy) to keep his cats from going "turtle" in most circumstances.
Gee man, I thought that all cats, excluding the Hobie 14, had this feature implemented. Even the cats that are older in design than the SC / ARC products had this so I guess Bill was not the first to think this one up.
>>A unique righting system that uses side stay extensions to allow the boats own weight to help right itself in the event of a capsize. This feature allows his 17' design to be righted by a single 160 lb person instead of the 300 lb crew weight it would normally require to right a 8' wide boardless beach cat.
A good designer designs a boat that can be righted without aids. But I think I will install sidestay adjuster on my A-cat now. Not to mention that there is a whole range of different aids available that all allow a 160 crew to right a two-person boat solo. Like I said there are more solutions to a single problem. Of course the modern solution is to make the mast and platform lighter and negate the need for aids altogether. Bill is yet to cross into this area of development.
>>For example this past year he and his son Eric won a major distance race (Dec 2003 Steeplechase) with a worn 1981 Supercat 20 (one of his first production cat designs) which was 100 lbs over its minimum allowable racing weight.
I seem to remember that it also had an oversized rig and was lucky to get its noose in a different weather system. The second day teh baot was beat by I think 9 I-20's on elapsed time. Its lead of the first day so such that it still corrected out over the whole event. But it show that either it had a very bad second day or a very good first day; both of which are no proof that the boat is vastly superior no matter what.
>>(usually a racer wants to be “dead on” the minimum boat weight, and most would see it as a waste of time to race in a boat with such a severe weight handicap).
It has been said many times, including by Bill himself, that the SC handicap ratings had drifted up (as if the baot has become slower) from the rating it was assigned 15 years ago. So please don't claim the SC has a severe rating because it simply doesn't.
>>He did this against some of the best sailors sailing some of the latest and greatest boats, winning by a wide margin, Winning both first to finish and on corrected time.…
Sighting one migrating bird doesn;t make a spring and the conditions during that distance race were suspect. A counter example is that the 2 SC product that have been entered in the round of texel for over 20 years now have never managed to win line-honours or win on corrected time. And here the best of world trully gether.
>>>He then went out a few weeks later with a “boardless” ARC 17 (also one of his designs)and won the overall open class in a major Buoy Race (Jan 2004 Tradewinds Midwinter Open Cat Nationals) against well respected racing cats of current design with dagerboards (dagerboards are regarded as a major advantage in sailing up wind), including the Taipan 4.9 and a Hobie 20.
There were 7 boats in the open class of that MAJOR (?) bouy race and ARC was assigned a peachy handicap number of 71.2; The others like H20 and taipan were racing of 64.9 and 68,1 and other lower ratings except the Dart 18. For such a superior design it is funny to see it rated between 10% and 5 % slower than its supposedly "inferior" competitors. It was beaten several times to the line by these boats that have about 15 % less sailarea than the SC17. More sailarea and still being rated significantly slower, that is some superior design you have there.
>>He is an amazing person to talk to…he has the ability to cut thru all the hype and get right to the core or the problem.
I grant that he is an amazing person, but about the hype I beg to differ. I think he actually spreads more of it than he debunks. The whole leehelm under spi is one major example; Eliptical bows is another. Ever noticed how in all pictures of the ARC-17 on the acquarius website the bow is almost under water, without the crew trapezing and on absolute flat water ? Humm, In never drive my bow down that far in such conditions and if I do than I start looking for hull leaks.
>>While many other designers treat the symptom,
Other designers have created very large and succesful classes like the H16, dart 18, F18, A-cat and Tornado classes. Also the new dsigns have breached serious barriers in lightweight construction and all-out speeds for a fraction of the SC and ARC prices and given teh limits imposed on these designs by reasonsof being easily trailerable. Not to mention that these design hold as good as all current records. And now you ask us to beleive that THEY got it all wrong ?
Wouter
