Carl,
<br>I think you are missing the main points of my argument. I will state them as clearly as possible.
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<br>CR“””I can understand the intent of the post in wanting to protect the local fleet of 6/0s that has been built up, -Follow the Yellow 6/0 --sounds like fun. -
<br>-The Formula 20 class is not being formed with the intent of trying to split up any one design fleet , but is attempting to provide a comprehensive set of 20 class rules to allow all to sail and compete in a spirit of good will together,
<br>Sailing a 6/0 at min wt. with a 348 sq ft shute may not be the answer for everyone , -
<br>There is an excellent quality of character in the desire to protect a local fleet , or a rating system you believe works , it is the method and sometimes the over reacting to the realities and actual goals ATTEMPTING to be achieved that should really be understood , based in fact , and what these goals really are. “”
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<br>EA First, I make no secrets of my own personal bias. I am pro one design, I am also pro formula if I perceive it to be fair. If I lived in Europe I would race a F18, probably a Hunter, Diam, Cirrus or a Hobie Tiger. I perceive F-18 racing to be fair enough that the best sailor usually wins. I don’t think any of the 8-9 F-18 boat types produced has breakthrough speed. This is an example of a very successful formula class. I would not however buy a Hobie 18, modify it so that it measures in under F-18 and race. That would not make sense. I would not perceive a formula that allowed radically different crew weights, boat weights, sail areas, to be fair. That is what many are advocating here.
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<br>CR”””The goal of the FORMULA 20 class is to provide fair equal sailing for all 8.5 B - 20 ft Cats. “””
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<br>EA MY own personal opinion is that the hull shapes, weights, and technology of all the 20 foot boats are way too different to be equalized by simply adjusting sail areas and minimum weights. IF you were talking about a single windspeed and level of chop it may be possible, but not over a wide range of conditions. In my mind, you have created a system no better then the Portsmouth, or Texel Rating you are trying to replace. I would not perceive this to be fair and would not participate.
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<br>CR “”””-You have said basically the goal or objective should be to have a formula specific group of boats that maybe some will mfg or build. Then presume to lay out some rules based on this false notion for a class you have no intent to sail ,-your quote [-Will this work? Who Knows. Would I sail under this formula? If I percieved it to be fair I might. }
<br>-It seems you and Mark have dropped in on the FORMULA 20 Class forum with the same misguided intent based on a notion that boats not in a specific fleet , as you have , should just race Porthmouth , -this isn.t working -it has not encouragaged growth or partisipation in the sport. “”””
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<br>EA Carl, first I would appreciate it if you turned down the rhetoric a notch. Please don’t take it personally that some people actually have different opinions then yourself. Statements such as: “” Then presume to lay out some rules based on this false notion for a class you have no intent to sail”, and “-It seems you and Mark have dropped in on the FORMULA 20 Class forum with the same misguided intent based…” Let me restate the point that I made. For a Formula 20 class to be successful, it needs to look towards the future. For the racing to be truly FAIR not all 20-foot boats can play in the sandbox at the same time. If you want to grandfather some of the 20 footers in for a specific period of time to get the class rolling, I would have no objection.
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<br>CR “”I raced the 6/0 for 2 seasons , and did 2 Worrell 1000 s on em , it,s a big straight line speed machine type of cat design , great fun , but a huge amount of work with that huge shute set on a pole. -The intent of the Sail Ar to Wt Formula is to allow all 20 ft boats to race equally ,--One start first to finish wins , most all racers prefer this .
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<br>-The 6/0 in its NA configuration is within 5 to 10 sq ft of equal sail area in main and jib to proposed Formula rules , It is very competitive with the Inter 20 which is the class base model.
<br>You may not agree with weight equalization , particularly if you exploit the min class weight , but weight does effect performance , that is fact.
<br>The spin size for the 6/o in Formula would be in the 300 range ,-330 with larger crew, pending final performance rating per designers.
<br>With the heavier masts ,believe Formula could accomodate the 6/0 s as they are , -The vision for the class is very much of a race what ya got ,just get out and race and have fun attitude . -Hooters will be allowed in place of a spin for those that don,t want to race with a shute . -It is your choice to set up a 20 footer the way you like and race it in a lerge fleet. If you want one design it can easily be maintained inside F-20 -if you want a variation for min wt on your local Wed. evening races go ahead , but don't be surprized if racing sailors start asking why .
<br>-The 6/0 is an excelent design that can compete with any if it is well sailed . Some like being a big fish on a small pond , but most fortunately have the attitude of the more the merrier. -Hope those in your area will consider the merits of Formula and join in to improve the concept and rules of fair equal sailing for all 20 ft designs. “””
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<br>EA Here are the main points of my argument. This should be clear enough for every one to understand.
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<br>Point #1 No amount of jockeying with sail area/weight will equalize the performance of 20 foot cats as diverse as the Dart 20, Nacra 6.0NA, CFR20,Inter 20 etc over a wide range of wind speeds. This is not to say that you could not make them all rate the same under Texel, or under the ISAF system. You can accomplish this if desired. This would be the equivalent of a level rating band in PHRF. This is not what I envision a true formula class to be.
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<br>Point# 2 With Point #1 in mind, the only 2 20ft boats currently made that are similar enough to potentially race together FAIRLY are the Inter 20 and Hobie FOX. Only having 2 Boat types do not make a good Formula Class.
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<br>Point #3 With Point #1,2 in mind, a formula class should do 2 things;
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<br>A. Grandfather in some existing 20 ft cats for a limited time. The aim of this would be low cost modifications to the existing sail plan and the addition of a chute
<br>B. Lobby Manufacturers to produce boats that conform to the rules of the class such that there are 3-5 possible boat types in the class. This allows choice. Make the rules tight enough that the boats are the same speed in all conditions.
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<br>Point #4 People who race in a formula Class are likely to want to also race at the Nationals of their respective boat manufacturers. To be competitive they need to train in the configuration they are going to sail in at nationals. This configuration includes sails and crew/boat weights.
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<br>Point #5 Most of the 20 footers today-Hobie Fox, Inter 20, etc have min weights of 325 or lower. Setting a min weight of 350 will discourage crews that are borderline lightweight for the lower weight limit. In general this will eliminate lighter husband and wife teams that are now racing Hobie 20’s, Nacra 6.0’s etc. (As a side note: My present crew and I would not be carrying weight sailing at 350lb min.)
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<br>Point #6 A large fraction of the 20-foot catamaran market are sailors with female crew. Building a formula based on just guys ignores a lot of potential market. I would note that an athletic female is more then capable of skippering or crewing on a 20-foot spinnaker equipped cat. Examples in my area include: Joe and Jen Hameway wnining the 97 Hobie 21 Continentals. Nora Zelmer at 110 lbs crewing on an Inter 20(div 12 champ). Sara Hibard, longtime Hobie 21 skipper with her husband Mark crewing. In Div 12, 2/3 of the Nacra 6.0’s have female crews. Most of these boats distance race with spinnakers ranging from 348-440 ft.
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<br>Eric
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