“””Hi Eric
<br>Could you clarify your point of view .
<br>EA wrote
<br>Point #1 No amount of jockeying with sail area/weight will equalize the performance of 20 foot cats as diverse as the Dart 20, Nacra 6.0NA, CFR20,Inter 20 etc over a wide range of wind speeds. This is not to say that you could not make them all rate the same under Texel, or under the ISAF system. You can accomplish this if desired. This would be the equivalent of a level-rating band in PHRF. This is not what I envision a true formula class to be.
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<br>MS
<br>I don't get your technical argument here.
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<br>EA2 PHRF fleets sometimes use level rating bands. This would be a group of boat types that have a similar PHRF rating. I.e. a PHRF band from 130-140. In this group the first to finish wins. The racers all agree to this even though the boats can have very different sailing characteristics. The end result is that even very good sailors won’t win if they get conditions that favor their boats. An Inter 20 and a spinnaker equipped Nacra 6.0 have very different sailing characteristics. When they sail boat for boat, wind strength, direction and how choppy the water is, determines who will be fastest assuming equal sailing skills.
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<br>One option in cat racing, which is what I think Carl is advocating, is to allow any 20 ft X 8.5 ft Cat platform to race by changing the sailplane and min boat and crew weight. What you end up with are boats with very different sailing characteristics. They will be equal under some conditions and not equal under others. I don’t think this is fair.
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<br>The other option is to have a more restrictive class, the performance characteristics of sail area, etc regulated. Anybody can build it if they follow strict guidelines.
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<br>MS How is the F18 situation different? “”
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<br>EA2 The sailing characteristics of the existing F-18 boats are much more similar because the rule is tight. Are they one design? No. Are certain designs better then others? Yes they are. Are some boats favored under differing conditions? Yes. The difference between formula boats is small enough that the best skipper usually wins. The results for the Major F-18 regattas show boats from 5-6 manufactures in the top 20. To me this is close racing that is boat independent. Good and Fair racing.
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<br>MS Why is Nacra producing an F18 if their I18 was optimal... Hmm perhaps chop effects the I18 a bit more then the hull volume of I18 helps it. (or so the market believes... ergo Performance needs a new boat)
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<br>In thinking about this it seems to me your argument is really a Show Me argument. the F18's have proven over a period of 6 or so years that the boats are even on the water AND the weight correction system works well. (At least that is what we hear over here). The fact that they all measure into the formula is nice but not critical. You are persuaded by proof on the water that the racing is tight enough to be called fair. Note though that the Dart Hawk dropped out of the running in F18 because it could not keep up.
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<br>What we are really talking about is how much prescion in different boat performance do we need to call the racing “fair” and most importantly have the racers think that its fair.
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<br>You may be right here.... Only experience on the water will give sailors the sense of fairness.
<br>The Mystere 6.0 and Nacra 6.0 rated the same in Texel and both were faster then the Classic Tornado. Reality is... Nacra was faster in light air and T was faster in breeze and the mystere never quite measured up..... Thus the portsmouth ratings. In this example, the formula is NO Comfort if you don’t feel that you have a chance. against someone who is about equal in sailing ability on a different boat.
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<br>I had not really considered this as such a critical factor in getting a formula 20 class going If you can’t SHOW that foxes and Inter 2o’s and Mysterer X/s are really close in performance you may never get people to buy into the f20 mindset. Hmmm. Texel and the French cat championships seem to indicate that Tornado's, Foxes, and euro I20's are very close of course the Foxes and euro I20's already measure into the euro f20 rule.
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<br>Is there any possible way that we could adopt the euro f20 rule and maintain a coherent rule AND have a huge euro database of lots of boats proving that the designs are fair on the water?
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<br>Take Care
<br>Mark
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<br>EA2 Certainly the cleanest way would be to adopt the Euro rules en mass. I don’t think this would fly in the US though. Next best are Euro rules but with a larger sail area allowed. This is the route I think we should go. I feel a rule that encompasses all 20 footers currently made today or in the future is unlikely to provide fair racing. If it is not fair, I don’t want to play.
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<br>Eric
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