I just got back from a weekend of racing in Mexico. I still haven't learned to use the spin yet. One side of the welded loop where the spin pole attaches, sheared off after 3 hours in rough water. It looks like a bad weld.

I raced triangles Sunday in 7 to 10 knots of wind against 1-Inter20, 2-Hobie20s, 2-Nacra 5.8s, 1-Mystere 6.0. I was Uni-Rigged, only the mainsail. I was not scored against the Inter 20 because we don't score spin and non spin together.

Excluding the Inter 20, I finished first in 3 of 4 races. The race I finished second I was only 3 seconds behind a Nacra 5.8. The Blade single handed with only the mainsail was able to walk away from all but the Inter 20 and was able to stay very close to the Inter 20 every fist leg upwind.
Downwind is when the other boats would make up lots of ground but in only 2 cases at C mark I was passed by a Nacra 5.8.

The boat seems to be much faster that the handicap would lead me to believe. All the other sailors were amazed as to how fast the boat was upwind and how fast it was downwind with only a mainsail.

The handicap under these conditions resulted in all boats giving me time, but it seems like it should have been the other way around. I think the handicap will eventually rate the Blade F16 faster than, Nacra 5.8, Prindle 19 MX, Hobie 20, and possible the Tiger F18. I think eventually I should be able to keep up with an Inter 20 in conditions below 12 knots of wind. I don't think is an exaggeration.

Welcome to the club Stephen.

Several of us have been saying to everybody that the US F16 handicap is far off, especially for the singlehanded version. In the east of the USA, the skippers have decided together to no longer race of the singlehanded rating but off the faster doublehanded rating. They had to practically force and beg the RC's to accept giving them a faster rating. Strange world isn't it ?

Outside of the USA the F16's are being raced of handicaps that are the same as the F18's or 1 % slower or faster. There is some variation here between the doublehanders and singlehanders although the singlehander is more often rated faster then the F16 2-up and the F18's.

The US F16 handicaps are between 5% and 8% slower then the F16 ratings in other parts of the world.

Next timem if you want to play fair, just ask to be rated of the F18 handicap when you are sailing with a spinnaker, that is a very good starting point for both setups (1-up and 2-up).

Wouter

SHHHH! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

btw- there is some good stuff in the "proper spinnaker technique" thread.

Clearly, you are a better sailor than I, because you seem to have really taken off and I'm still struggling.

Nevertheless, a big stumbling block with the spin seems to be capsizing while gybing. I do it, Robi did, and Tback did it. The key seems to be in steering a smooth arc with good speed and not heading up too high at the end. Good luck! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

* see my avatar!

Seems like you have the same problem I do.. and single handing on the blade would make your weight position so much more critical. If you end up on the wrong side of the boat during the gybe or accidently do the "ok.. going to take this one slowly, here I go, through ddw, let me slip over to the other side of the tramp.. oops.. don't wanna run too high.. CRAP.. accidently gybed back... going going... GONE!" at least it iss a short trip from the downwind hull to the water. been there multiple times

Yup! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Give yourself some credit--you must be darn good at pulling the right strings. Oh, and if you think it's fast now--wait until you're ripping downwind with the spinnaker! It may not help as much on triangle courses, but on W-L courses you'll sail faster yet much deeper than all the sloops.

I agree with all of the above and want to add ALL F16s that I have seen are fast like that (only been exposed to the Blade and Taipan). The Stealth F16 seems to be very fast, as well (just have not seen one in action personally).

Gybe fast without any fear of pitchpole??? Just add "T" foils to the rudders. Problem solved, guaranteed.

It's been a while since I posted on the forum, but since no one else seems willing to respond to your guarantee, Darryl, I guess it falls to me.

Let me start by thanking you publically for your off-line suppport and advice in the early phases of my project. It was very much appreciated. I also hope you're right about the t-foil rudders eliminating pitchpoling because I am in the process of modifying my Nacra 5.0 based F16 to take advantage of your ideas.

While my Nacra does have a fully F16 compliant main and is reasonably fast, there's no getting around the fact it weights close to a 45+ kilograms more than the Taipans, Blades, et al. To make things even worse, the boat has skegs and not daggerboards which means giving away a lot of upwind performance.

To minimize if not eliminate those factors I'm in the process of making the stock Nacra rudders longer (76+ centimeters vs the 60.96 stock). Per your advise, this should add my upwind performance.

I am always going to fit the rudders with rather large t-foil sections swept back at 45 degrees. These should allow me to sail my boat bow down with less chance of pitchpoling.

Frankly, I will probably need all the help I can get.

That's because I have ordered a flat, roller furling reaching spinnaker from Rick White. His sailmaker suggests that I should be able to fly my headsail on everything from a close reach to downwind. And while I will be giving up a bit of straight downwind performance to the pure spinnakers, I'm hoping the advantage of having a sail I can use on everything but upwind will be a trade off. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I am also convinced, having watched Doc (Eric Paulson) pitchpole his Taipan snuffing his spinakker on a day sail as well as earlier posts on the forum that roller furling is a better option. I believe it will make for easier deployment of the sail. I think the windage of the sail furled is a good trade off, especially when you consider I hope to fly it both downwind and on the reaches.

Of course, the problem with the flat reaching spinnakers is they do tend to depress the leeward bows. That's where the t-foils come in. Assuming you a right, Darryl, about the new longer t-foil rudders eliminating pitchpoling and improving upwind performance, my new setup should give me a boat that's okay on a beat and will carry more sail than a C Cat all the rest time. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Heck, I may need the extra weight of the 5.0 just to help me hold it down.

I know my thinking here goes a bit against the grain but as somebody said, you got to love formula racing. Hopefully, all will be finished by Huntington Lake and I'll be able to test my theories against Doc (Eric Paulson) and the guys.

I'll post photos of the rudders when they're done if anyone is interested.

Good sailing to all,

John Metzig
Nacra F16

John,

fun reading your story and about your plans. I also think T-foil rudders soon will be "standard" on F-16s, without having tried them myself (going out on a limb with that statement, will be fun to see).

But, if you want your boat to be F-16 compliant, how can you fit a roller furling spi/reacher on it? The halfwidth of the sail must be 75% or more of the foot, and I dont think your sailmaker will be able to make such a sail for rollerfurling unless you get a rollgen or similar? Most rollerfurling sails with the luff attached to the furler will need a hollow leech to furl properly. They also need to be fairly flat. At least this is the impression and experience I have.


Pictures of your rudders will be very welcome, the same for reports on how the boat handles after the modifications.

Rolf,

Thanks for your response and support. Like I said, it will be interesting. And I will pass along photos of my rudders when they are finished.

As for your concerns about compliance. Let me just say that my furling head sail will be fulling compliant with the F16 rules. I insisted on it.

My inspiration came out of an email in which Dave Calvert, the sailmaker for Rick White, wrote,

"I also worked on furling spinnaker designs that work well for this they have a positive leech and a fairly straight luff. With a small diameter spectra luff line, these sails can still be furled..."

He went on to add, "You can't use them up wind but they will close reach very well, better than most spinnakers. They work better downwind than the laminate hooters but, still need to be sailed hot to work well."

After reading that, it accorded to me that if one combined t-foil ruddders that would keep the boat from pitchpoling with an off wind sail you could fly on everything but a beat one might have a different approach to high performance. Once that idea came to me, the rest was history.

I do want to thank Rick White for being very proactive in getting this done. Like several other people, he indicated it's an idea worth trying.

As to the obvious other concerns? How well will it furl? Or sail?

First, even if it all works perfectly, I'm not sure I'm a good enough sailor to take advantage of it. But that part of the equation would be true even if I sprang for a new Blade.

As for the furling and performance? In the recruiting industry that I work in we would say that's TBD (to be determined). But as JR Watson from Gougeon Brothers suggested, "You're experimenting. You may be on to something."

In any case, win or lose, good or bad, I do hope to push the design envelope into a bit of a different direction. I would hope that among all the F16 sailors out there we could come up with ways to be competitive without merely buying the latest design de jour.

We shall see,
John

Good luck John, and I sincerely hope you succeed and enjoy the results.

Experimentation is always to the good, even if the results turn out to be not as expected/hoped. If Calvert guarantees a well furling sail in compliance with the F-16 rules, you are on safe ground there. Hope you find the time to take lots of photos of your setup and details when finished. I especially wonder about the flying shape and furled shape of your reacher.
When you have it set up, experimentation with a GPS to find your best VMG downwind could be worthwhile if you are going to race it. I sure hope you try sailing it against spi/snuffer equipped F-16s, just to see how it performs.


Please keep us informed about your project. The tinkering and experimentation going on in the F-16 class is a great part of the fun.