That is why I need expert opinions. I know NOTHING about them

Doug

Guys, I apologize for my attitude in a previous post - I was pretty worn out and getting hammered at work at the time. In hindsight, we probably could have made the spreader rake a little deeper. While I still am not certain about how it would have impacted the jib, I didn't fully understand that the mast I was using as a basis wasn't setup by Matt for light weight. Great event - thanks to all the competitors, MYC folks, and other volunteers like Terry, Pete, Kevin, and (you heard it right) even Noodle, for making it what it was.

Don't know what you need to apologize for ....

..you, Kevin and the Melbourne Yacht Club ran a great regatta! As far as I can tell, none of the competitors said anything about the boat setups being unfair (perhaps not optimal for conditions ... but then you'd have to change after every race to make that happen and that's not realistic).

...and who knew it was going to blow 18-20kts + for the week! Forecast for early in the week was little to no wind gradually picking up!!!

Great job!

do not use stopper knots in spin sheets.

Use a continuous spin sheet.

I have a pigtail in the middle of my spin sheet that ties to the clew of the spin and then tie the ends of the sheets together on the tramp. I would like to not do that but there is no real other way unless I upgrade the bzzz to something taperable and put eye splices in the tips then make it continuous. I originally thought I could splice eyes into the bzzz but I was wrong. Otherwise the bzzz line is great

That's what I do, and there's no problem with it - it's not really a stopper knot, because the reef knot never gets anywhere near the blocks on the beam. But you don't want completely separate sheets with stopper knots, and definitely not cleats.

Paul

Yeah, kudos to Matt, Jake, and the entire staff. This was a very smoothly run event.

I can understand Matt's frustration over the set-up. Even though the rig was in a "powered up" mode, and subsequently benefited the "fat boys", you could still see where even a little more raking of the mast would have a big impact. As it was, the downhaul depowered quite efficiently -- just not as much as you can expect in a more swept back configuration.

Guys:

I will just leave the stock system. I have a small kite. I know I can handle it and blocks are back by me, so all Ashleigh will have to do is jib.

Doug

So Guys. How about a complete tuning guide from everything that was learned? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Doug

"Team Layline" (aka Team Mondo Taco) was at 335#, not 360...

To Phills comments I would like to add that you must not forget about the "lazy F16" setup also known as "A la A-cat".

This means you leave everything off except the mainsail. Rigging is a breeze and you'll be out on the water very quickly. For some reason no reraking of the mast is necessary on the Blade, it stays pretty balance when the jib is not fitted.

It is also pretty quick. Just last saterday I gave a GPS unit to a clubmember (95 kg = 210 lbs) singlehanding his F16 this way and he score 16 knots averages both upwind and downwind. He also achieved pointing angles of 45 degrees upwind and downwind. Winds were strong that day. Later (another boat) we went out with two on the boat (total 160 kg = 350 lbs) with again only the mainsail and scored 15 knots on average upwind. The GPS batteries were flat on the downwind leg so can't tell you the speeds there, sorry.

I have myself sailed this way (mainsail only) the last couple of weekends as I'm very busy during the week and I feel very tired in the weekends. So I don't have the energy to completely rig my F16, but just through up the mainsail is something I still can handle. And even this way the F16 is great fun.

First club race is in two weeks and then I'll go fully rigged again !

In general I'm really pleased personally at how well the boat behaves in all different variations and indeed I do use all of these regulary. I'm loving it for this versatility.

Wouter

I think we must see Matts comments in the same light, at least that is how I took these postings.





It wouldn't, the phenomenon of the spreader arms hitting the jib is the result of some crews running alot of mast rotation. On F16's the mast rotation is really never rotated that much, not even in mild conditions. But then again we can't blame the crews as they were new to boats indeed !

With respect to mast rotation on F16's, John Williams appears to have the right trim as he mentioned that on their boat the spreaders were to the back of the jib. In numbers the mastrotation of the superwing mast is never more then 45 degrees of the centreline. It is pointing to the daggerboard well or behind it. In stronger winds it is even pointing to the rearbeam ending or rudderstock (less then 30-25 degrees). The spreader rake is typically 30-35 degrees, thus the tip of the spreader arm will never be more then 70 mm forward (less then 3 inches) of the mainbeam. In big wind the spreader arm tip will even be 50 mm to the rear of the mainbeam. The leech of the jib is more in front of the mainbeam then that.

On the downwind legs the jib leech will be relatively slack allowing the spreader arm to pass the leech without hanging up on it.

Still it would have been smart by the sailmaker to have put dacron patches on the jib where the spreaders are. I have personally stitched them on there myself to reduce wear when the boat is head to wind and the leech is flapping against the spreaders.

I hope this helps interested sailors/parties.

Wouter

No need, go to the F16 forum, these topics have been covered there 10's of times already. Do a search and you shall find.

Plus we must not forget that each sail from a different sailmaker needs its own individual settings. In the end of the day each crew must find the settings that work for him (as a crew) and the sail he has bought. Can't really give an uniform tuning sheet for different crews and sail makes.

Wouter

335 lbs = 152 kg. You guys will not have been unhappy at all ! That is quite a good crew weight for the F16, especially in those winds. 140 kg = 310 lbs is most likely the centre of the optimal crew weight range, when taken over a wide range of conditions. 10 kg (25 lbs) extra is not significant enough to make a noticeable difference. Personally I believe (based on results) that 125 kg - 155 kg (275-340 lbs) is the range a racing (doublehanded) F16 crew is looking for. With the 125 kg crews being just as disadvantaged as the 155 kg crews.

Personally I raced up to 170 kg (375 lbs) and felt in the game.

Wouter

Source : http://www.adventureonline.tv/phpBB2/vie...sc&start=15



Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:08 am Post subject:

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Stank, two words 4u. "The General"

Tad, it's a fun boat. I especially liked sailing it contra o vento. Matt's done a great job with the boat. I was impressed. I also enjoyed working the main! It has plenty of power, and is a joy to sail.

No matter what JW says, he did an excellent job on the boat, rock solid. I fed off of his positive attitude, and he was a focused dervish on adjustments and housekeeping. He gave me excellent info that I could trust and base our tactics on, which allowed me to focus on making the boat perform. It truly was a team effort.

I can't count how many times upwind he said,
"you can go anytime..............anytime boss........I think we're there.........um......" A minute later we'd be yelling, "weeeeeeeeeee....." coming into A mark.

Good times
F

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Return questions by Terry Back :


JC,

JW also mentioned that you tended to overstand each layline ... can you provide insight if this was a strategy for you.




Answer back by John Casey


Sure Terry,

It was nice to see you there helping out. That is what it is all about. Thanks for being there.

I didn't always overstand, and sometimes tacked inside of other boats, but when we were controlling the fleet we didn't take any chances to short tack it. If I didn't feel any pressure from the boats behind us I overstood. On that particular boat, footing felt so good, although it would sail in a good range upwind. It was just plain fun to overstand and come screaming into A. It also gives you a good angle coming around the mark for a smoother transition, and with not much bow that was important.


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So now we also have the report by both people on the winning team. John Casey and John Williams.

This probably completes the reporting on the Alter Cup 2007 and the boat used in that event, the Blade F16.

It is time to let this discussion die and focus on the path towards the Alter Cup 2008 and the boat used then, AHPC Capricorn F18.

Best of luck to all the aspiring teams for 2008


Wouter

Due to the "3 Post in procession limit " all of your postings are now rated at zero. Go to the Marine store and enter yourself in the new "Anonandon Patonback" treatment syndrome course.......And repeat," Hi ho ,hi ho the F16 will blow." 9 out of 10 sailors put there credit cards back in there wallets after visiting the F16 forum......... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So THAT's how you get over 6000...

Now that is actually a good thing, that is progress. In the past they used to just kill themselfs immediately after visiting the F16 forum. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter

(Nothing creates contempt like succes !)