I took the Escape out today, blowing 25+, took a new kid out and he loved the wire...BUT, every time we got it on a fast, low reach, the rudders would pop up. I think I need new springs but before I buy 4 of them, I figured I would ask if it might be something else. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. Oh, they are the square tip Prindle 18 type rudders. It's hard to steer that beast at high speed with both rudders up! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

before buying new springs, try to shorten the springs by using pliers to compress the coils to each other. Alternatively you can use a screwdriver to pry the coils apart to lengthen the springs.

There is a happy medium to this system, but can be hard to achieve. Too loose and they pop up, too tight and they won't pop up and you really have to dig in while pulling the up line.

This is a very common problem with Prindle rudders and is easily fixed. You need to make the rudder lock bolt a couple of turns shorter and make sure it is properly alligned with the pin it engages. Be careful not to overtighten the locking nuts. You can damage the rudder at this critical point. With the boat in a position where the rudders are locked down and can kick up freely (on the beach or dry land) you should have to kick the bottom of the leading edge of the rudder firmly to get them to pop up. In 21 years of owning Prindles I have never seen the cause of rudders popping up at speed to be anything other than rudder lock bolt adjustment. It can be very annoying to have this problem in a windy race. Good luck. Greg

Screwing the bolt in will change the rudder angle, adding lee helm. Not necessarily some you want to change.

also, check the lock down bolts and make sure they aren't bent. I had to replace a bent one on my P16.

Thanks, I will try adjusting the lockdown bolt with the V in it. It does have a little more weather helm than I like so maybe that will cure that too?

I had this problem last year when I bought my 18-2. Turned out to be the combination of a couple things.

First, the bolt that the springs are attached to was wearing into the rudder casting and it no longer had full range anymore. I removed the bolt and put nylon washers on the outsides of the castings. This allowed the bolt to move up and down completely without getting stuck in the groove it had created.

Second, the adjustment bolt that's attached to the rudder with the curved notch at the front of it... from the rudder being pulled down so many times and I assume from slamming into a spring loaded bolt that wasn't moving freely enough, the leading (top) edge of that notch had been rounded over. This was preventing the spring loaded bolt from seating all the way into the bottom of the notch. I used a file and took the rounded over part off of the bolt.

That sounds like it might be the problem. I can hear them click when I lock them down, but I have not looked over the back at them closely to see what is going on. At speed, one always popped up. But yesterday, with the great wind we had and another guy on board, we were able to push it fast enough to get the "good" rudder to pop up too. I will put it up on a trailer and see what is going on. Thanks for the ideas.

What Blockp said. It has nothing to do with turning the lock down bolt in or out,- unless when you tighten it, you also raised it up a few millimeters. It only adjusts rudder rake, as someone else said.

1. the lock down bolt has to have an unworn groove in it.
2. the bolt that goes across the casting can't be bent at all, (sometimes, you can turn a bent one downward, this tightens it up)
3. this same bolt, must move freely up and down. Don't tighten the springs too tight against the casting. I've seen a transom ripped out of a P16 at East beach, Galveston, b/c the springs were soo tight, when he hit the beach fast, it wouldn't pop up, and ripped the transom off!
4. after all this is done, then rarely is it the spring tension. New ones or modified ones as has been said then will help this.

Good luck

I looked at them closely yesterday, I think the bolts that go across the casting, that the pin lock to, might be slightly bent or worn at the contact point. I was thinking I could remove all four bolts and swap the good ones for the bent ones. While I have it apart, I can squeeze the springs a bit to tighten them up too, and file the rudder lock down bolts a bit too. Thanks for the help.

Hey Timbo, I had that problem once with mine and after adjusting didn't work, a light tap with a hammer on that lock down bolt did the trick.

Jerry, do you mean to tap the V cut lock bolt in the up direction so it will be tighter to the cross bolt? Or are you tapping the cross bolt down?

Yes, I did to the V cut bolt in the up direction, and never had it pop up again.

Thanks!