if he got your goat he should give it back , goat nicking is taking tings too far !!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
best check it hasn't been tampered with too - you know what these mono sailors are like <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />









Why not protest him next time , he'll soon get the message that way , there not enough protesting these days and rule obeyance has gone to the dogs

Start talking ahead of time to each other. While no hail is required you can still give him the "courtesy" of pointing out you are on starboard.

finish your hail by beginning to count loud enough for him to hear you, "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand...." Record or remember what count you got to when you took avoiding action.

Then protest him and say you were at x one thousand when you took action because he did not take appropriate action.

Or you may count to 5 one thousand and repeat your hail and count again. Anything to get his attention and make him realize he's not responding.

Give the protest committee the detail of your hail(s) and counts in your protest. It will secure the timeframe.

he had 30 seconds to respond. I'll be having words at the weekend.

So, not to hijack this thread, but this is an interesting point. How often do you protest? Under what conditions is it appropriate to protest - or not to protest. For example, do you protest someone who fouls you, but is not in your fleet or class, like a H16 and an TheMightyHobie18 sharing a course? Do you let the little stuff go and only push the blatant situations in bigger events? Are the rules a way to advance your position so you hail protest every time someone breaks a rule, even in questionable or difficult situations? Finally, how many protests have you been involved in over the past two years? This goes out to everyone, not just Codblow

I've protested far too few times , its rarely heard of in uk cat sailing and rule obeyance is shocking , we like to think we are being gents , but there are some folks that completely ignore the rules knowing that theres little chance of protest .

Sailing is becoming in danger of becomming like other sports where the chance of getting caught cheating , disobeying rules etc is a risk worth taking in persuit of the goal of winning ,

When I started racing in dinghies 3 decades ago , the rules were adhered to , if you didn't you would get protested and if in the wriong , thrown out , everyone knew where they were ! , now its pretty rare .

As i said above I generally try to avoid confrontation as its faster .

I wouldn't normally encourage folk to protest boats in other classes , but if Scoobys goat grabber is a repeat offender and someone Scooby crosses paths with regularily in his club racing , reckon he 's had his last chance .



How many times have you been approaching the windward mark (2 boat lengths ) when some chancer cuts in on port and tacks in front of you forcing you to take avoiding action and then continues on deaf to your cries of protest , how many of you regularily follow the protest through - not enough I expect or it wouldn't happen so often

I think the problem is alot of people are scared of the protest room, one beacuse it can be intimidating and also because of the peer pressure.

I was lucky I was taught at a very young age what went on in a protest room. I can remeber sitting with my Grandad listening to protest hearings, thus learning the protocol and how to handle yourself. Then as I got older I was taught how to protest and a combination of my early years meant that when I had to go in for real I wasn't daunted by it.

Protests should be part of sailing and don't occur as often as they should

As for peer pressure any bad feelings should stay in the protest room

Thoroughly agree

without protests and subsequent dealing with , matters and resentment can roll on such as Scooby and his "problem " ,

Something to be stressed to those begining racing so that it is a "normal " part of a race proceedure and one everyone is comfortable about .

One other thing that gets MY goat is when folk go off taliking about "i'm going to protest the committee " (this strangely seems more common than protesting competitors !)
When there is no course for such an action , when committees hear the "protest " word hackles come out , sleeves rolled up ready for a fight !

When the real issue and course of action is seeking redress which is the rectification of an error (without prejudice) by a race committee that affects a boats finishing position .Sounds much better!

I've sought redress from an international jury before and their opening line of attack was "so you 're the guy protesting the committee then " to which I replied "no thats not possible I'm seeking redress " they instantly calmed down and I got my OCS back .

Rules ,protests , redress and appeals have become a very forgotten part of most racing apart from the very high end .

I'm somewhat new to sailing and never bothered to race my sunfish or laser.

Just curious, but in sailing, does the act of protest have to occure while still on the water?

I've been a rower for years, and in the crew world the protest has to be voiced while still on the water. This is then followed by a meeting of the officials at the finish line. The party then issuing the protest is then expected to sumbmit a fee of $25-$100 for the protest. Sometimes, in smaller regatta the officials set the protest fee to $1000, so as to discourage the protest.

Is this similar in sailing, because I've found myself protested for oar clashes on more than one occasion......

There have been a lot of good posts so far.

To address the original question - there is no hard and fast answer. ISAF Case 50 (see .pdf]http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/casebook2006supplement-[909].pdf )
reads on this matter. The protest committee must decide whether S(tarboard) bore away early, or P(ort) failed to keep clear. If RRS 16.1 applies, the PC must also determine whether or not sufficient room was given. The variables involved (boats, seas, wind) are too great to embody in a rule, so it is left as a judgement call.

Regarding why we seldom protest an infraction, I think there are multiple reasons, including:

1) Lack of experience. People seldom have protests and simply don't know how to proceed, or are scared to. There's only one real solution to this, though, and that's to protest and learn.

2) Lack of motivation. Let's face it - a protest hearing is a hassle. It takes time and effort that we would much rather spend packing up and socializing. If you read the preamble to the rules, however, you'll see that we are expected to both "follow and enforce" them. If we fail to enforce the rules (don't protest), then we cannot honestly complain when others do not follow them.

3) Lack of maturity. Sadly, I think this is a big component. In these politically correct times, a protest is often taken as an accusation of cheating. It isn't. Despite my best efforts, I do occasionally foul someone, or hit a mark, or am over early. In those events, I own up to my mistake, take a penalty, and move on (at least - I try to move on <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ). I believe that when a protestee takes offense, or worse - blames the protestor, then he simply needs to grow up.

That said, I do protest far more often than anybody else in my local club - and I take some heat for it. Recently I protested a boat in a different fleet, and the skipper couldn't believe it. He felt that since we were not competing against each other, he should be allowed to get away with the foul. He exonerated himself on the water though, and (aside for some discussion at the social) that was the end of the matter.

My position is: If you foul someone, take a penalty. If someone fouls you, protest.

Regards,
Eric

All,

I'll be having words; I initially thought this bloke was a learner from the back of the fleet (and so IMO it's better to have a quiet word), I later found he was near the front and should know better.

The issue can be that if you protest every offence you get a rep for being a bit agressive - but as others have said, the rule obayence in parts of the UK fleet is in a shocking state (this litte event has shown me how bad it is when P vs S is getting ignored, I'm gioing to be protesting people from now on.

One other problem (that I am trying to get addredssed) is that my club ususally hold protests after racing each day, but I have a young family and so want/need to get back to them; I've asked the club to holds protests the following week at lunch time.

We'll see what happens !

Monos back the idea that Cats will bend. If you thought a mono would bend out of your way you would do the same.
Best thing to suggest politely in company that if they want to improve they can ask for advice once they learn the basic methods of controlling their boat and that in the mean time you don't mind just avoiding a beginner.