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Stowing stuff on board #12313
10/30/02 08:37 PM
10/30/02 08:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 215
Durham, North Carolina
jwrobie Offline OP
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jwrobie  Offline OP
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Durham, North Carolina
I really would like to be able to stow a picnic cooler on board, or sail across a lake with camping gear and set up camp, or...

You get the picture. Where do you store your stuff on a catamaran?

Jonathan

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: jwrobie] #12314
10/30/02 10:20 PM
10/30/02 10:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 59
Sandy Hook, NJ Fleet 250
jonr Offline
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Sandy Hook, NJ Fleet 250
Store stuff. Out of the way would be best. It would depend on your boat. I had a Hobie 18sx and the wings were great for loading stuff on. I would sail out to some island off Norwalk CT. set up our site and day sail from there all day as friends would come by for ride on the wild cat. You know most non catsailor think anything over 8kt is fast. Dry bags are a must.

Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: jwrobie] #12315
10/31/02 01:12 AM
10/31/02 01:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 164
The Netherlands (North West Eu...
RobLammerts Offline
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RobLammerts  Offline
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The Netherlands (North West Eu...
Please look at http://www.magicmarine.com/ they have numerous solutions for wet and dry bags.


Rob Nacra 6.0 European version Nr 090 + Spi
Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: jwrobie] #12316
10/31/02 01:46 AM
10/31/02 01:46 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 217
J
jcasto1 Offline
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jcasto1  Offline
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J

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Posts: 217
I had the local sailmaker sew on two large zippered pockets either side of the tramp centerline, up near front crossbar. That location seems to be Out of the way most of the time. I also sewed some straps on the tramp, between the pockets, one near front beam, one about a foot back. These straps can be tied to a small Igloo cooler, or other objects that don't fir in a pocket.
There is a bracket thing that someone sells to hold your ice chest just in front of the mast, just above dolphin striker level. And there are bags designed to fit inside the access port covers in the hulls.
Out of the way is a good description of the need. When sailing, it has to be out of your way, plus not interfere with any control lines you need to sail well/safely. Centering the extra weight on the boat can also minimize the negative performance impact.


Jim Casto
NACRA 5.5 & NACRA 5.7
Austin TX
Lake Travis
Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: jwrobie] #12317
10/31/02 10:14 AM
10/31/02 10:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 45
Austin, TX
spinakerjohn Offline
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Posts: 45
Austin, TX
We stuffed the hulls with dry bags like the Sealline 15 liter bag. Fits in a Hobie 18 port and left the deck clean. Clear plastic dry bags snag inside the hulls and leak. We tied 48 qt ice chests at the front cross bar but hard to work the jib. Several softsided ice chests work better. Use one for 1st day and another for the 2nd day. The 2nd chest can be wrapped with a cheap space blanket.

Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: jwrobie] #12318
10/31/02 10:50 AM
10/31/02 10:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
The best way I found to carry the stuff was to make a simple front tramp. When I camped with a wife and two girls we would carry quite a bit of stuff on my TheMightyHobie18 mag.

I found a mesh tramp half then went the Depot and bought 2 lenghts 1.5" alum. tubing. 1 - 2in. alum. angle. I took the tubing and using a spare tire mounted on my trailer, tweaked the 2 pieces of tubing until it matched the contour of the main beam. Then I cut 4 pieces of the alum. angle about 1 foot long taped them to the inside of the hulls on the shear at about where the tramp would be. Then trimed the ends of the tubing until it would butt up against the inside of the angle. Took the boat to a welder and had him weld the tubing to the angle. I then carpeted the inside of the angle to protect the boat from scratching. The tramp already had grommets along one edge. That was laced to the front to the front tube. I added about 6 grommets to each side and ran large shockcord with plastic hooks attached. The hooks attach to the outside of the shear pulling the sides tight. The rear tube was tied in three places,ends and center to the main beam. I added gromments to the rear of the tramp and laced it to the rear tube. At the front I replaced the the clevis pins at the bridles with shackles. I then ran a continuous line from the center of the front tube to a shackle back to the tube then to the other shackle. I used a clam cleat in-line to tension the whole thing. It very light and takes about 5 min. to rig or remove. We would stack the dry bags and coolers on it leaving the tramp mostly empty. My daughter could lay on it and it supported her. In fact I left it on all the time. I'll see if I can find a pic.

I'm starting to work on one for my M6.0. Its going to be similar to one I saw on the ARC 30.

Mike



Have Fun
Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: jwrobie] #12319
10/31/02 10:57 AM
10/31/02 10:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
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42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
On my Nacra 6.0, (same as 5.8's etc.), I use a soft sided, well insulated cooler sold commercially.

I tie it to the Over-rotator traingular shaped bar that's on the front of the bottom of the mast!

Always out of the way completely, EASY to get to while underway, [color:"yellow"] [/color] without altering your boat trim by going aft to get in those ispec. port holes.

If you're lashing things down, of course take into accout things such ease of getting to sheets and rigging, boat trim, etc.


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: catman] #12320
10/31/02 11:00 AM
10/31/02 11:00 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 217
J
jcasto1 Offline
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jcasto1  Offline
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J

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 217
Yes, please post picture(s). I especially like the removable aspect of your concept.


Jim Casto
NACRA 5.5 & NACRA 5.7
Austin TX
Lake Travis
Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: jwrobie] #12321
10/31/02 01:09 PM
10/31/02 01:09 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 111
NYC
Vladimir Offline
member
Vladimir  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 111
NYC
The best drybags for storing staff on the tramp are made by
Stearns AmphibiGear IMHO.
http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=22380
http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=22384
They are expencive, but tougth and have wide round solid opening with "screw-in" caps similar to the hatch caps.
Very easy to open/close underway and watertight. Bags can be inflated and used as additional flotation, backrest or racing mark.
I got two (square ones) last year, and made over 1000 miles of coastal trips this year. Never regretted spending $120 on the bags
Vladimir

Stuff is half the issue - safety is the other!!! [Re: jwrobie] #12322
10/31/02 01:44 PM
10/31/02 01:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 50
Farmington, Utah
thouse Offline
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thouse  Offline
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Farmington, Utah
I periodically join a group that organizes seasonal sailing and camping on an Island that's about 30 some-odd miles off the Southern California coast, (i.e., Catalina Island.)

Some of the old "salts" point out that keeping stuff dry and on the tramp is only half the issue; especially in an unexpected capsize. In that case, the extra weight, tied to the tramp or carried inside the hull(s) can make self-righting the boat very difficult or impossible.

These experienced off-shore beach cat sailors give some sound advice:

1. Understand that the extra weight will likely rest between your mast head and the supporting hull when you are capsized. This, of course, puts lots more weight, just where you don't want it when trying to right the boat. The stuff, it's placement when capsized and its weight may even be sufficient to cause the boat to turtle.

2. Load the boat with all the stuff you intend to carry and configured as you intend to configure, place and secure it. Then capsize the boat where you can get help or help yourself, then see if you can right the boat....BEFORE you venture far from help.... "fore-warned is fore-armed."

3. If you can't right the boat, with all the stuff loaded as you intend.... (or even if you can) ensure each piece of gear, stowed in its water proof container floats....or put it with some gear that does float in its container (dry bag, cooler, etc.) Then tie a lanyard to each container containing gear. Each lanyard is about ten feet long and has one end tied to a gear container and the other end of the lanyard is secured to the boat.

The lanyards are stowed under or tied to the container they each service.

The purpose of the lanyards are so you can jettison the gear if you can't right the boat, and still have the gear floating and attached to the boat.

Once the boat is back on its feet, one simply pulls the lanyards to retrieve the gear and the gear is again tied back onto the tramp.

This is some pretty good advice, born out the experience of others.

Just some thoughts....

Tom H.

One more thing.... [Re: thouse] #12323
10/31/02 01:52 PM
10/31/02 01:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 50
Farmington, Utah
thouse Offline
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thouse  Offline
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Farmington, Utah
Sorry, but I forgot to add one of their other tips....

When you are expereimenting with righting the loads cat, if you have trouble righting the boat.... you may consider tying a second and shorter lanyard to each container. This second lanyard is short enough so it suspends the gear, above the water, if the gear is jettisoned over the elevated hull of the capsized boat.

The configuration actually adds some wight to help right the boat, if you need it.

Best regards,

Tom H.

Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: jwrobie] #12324
10/31/02 01:54 PM
10/31/02 01:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 251
beaufort, sc
dannyb9 Offline
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beaufort, sc
i use duffel bags with drybags stuffed inside and a soft cooler. i read a post on the h16 thread about a guy who rigged a ladder-like system from pvc, mounted fore and aft on the centerline, attached to the dolphin striker and extending forward to just forward of the forestay bridle, suspended just below the bridle. he had bungees attached to the front of the ladder and each bow bridle fitting to stabilize it side to side. he lashed 2 48 qt coolers on it side by side close to the mast and drybags in front of that, i think its a great idea and plan to try something similar for my next extended trip.


marsh hawk
One more thing...!!!! [Re: jwrobie] #12325
10/31/02 01:54 PM
10/31/02 01:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 50
Farmington, Utah
thouse Offline
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thouse  Offline
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Posts: 50
Farmington, Utah
Sorry, but I forgot to add one of their other tips....

When you are expereimenting with righting the loads cat, if you have trouble righting the boat.... you may consider tying a second and shorter lanyard to each container. This second lanyard is short enough so it suspends the gear, above the water, if the gear is jettisoned over the elevated hull of the capsized boat.

The configuration actually adds some wight to help right the boat, if you need it.

Best regards,

Tom H.

You don't have to carry supplies ON the boat. [Re: thouse] #12326
10/31/02 07:20 PM
10/31/02 07:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
samevans Offline
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samevans  Offline
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If you are talking about camping gear and supplies why don't you just TOW the stuff?
You could use a kayak, a small dinghy or an inflatable.
It would give you something else to do if the wind died.
They make something called a Hydro Trailer which is designed for high speed towing behind a PWC.
Actually, you take a PWC and throw out the motor and pump and turn it into a usefull trailer :-)

Re: You don't have to carry supplies ON the boat. [Re: samevans] #12327
11/01/02 12:15 PM
11/01/02 12:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 215
Durham, North Carolina
jwrobie Offline OP
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jwrobie  Offline OP
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Durham, North Carolina
Does towing slow you down more than putting stuff on board? How does it affect the handling of the boat?

Jonathan

Re: You don't have to carry supplies ON the boat. [Re: jwrobie] #12328
11/01/02 05:16 PM
11/01/02 05:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 123
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Greg Offline
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Greg  Offline
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Posts: 123
Santa Fe, New Mexico
When I have towed exhausted novice wind surfers I found it very difficult to tack upwind with my Hobie 16. Just as I would start to repower after tacking the towline would pull me into irons frequently. It turned out to be much more efficient to just throw the guy's board across my hulls up forward.
Greg
H14, H16

Re: Camping and/or touring [Re: jwrobie] #12329
11/01/02 05:17 PM
11/01/02 05:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
samevans Offline
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It depends on the boat, how much gear(weight), how many people(weight), and water conditions.
You could load a Nacra 6.0 with 100-200lbs of extra gear and it's handling would suffer a little. Put 200lbs of extra gear on a Hobie 16 and it becomes a slug.
Towing is also detrimental to boat handling. There is no free lunch.

Re: You don't have to carry supplies ON the boat. [Re: Greg] #12330
11/01/02 07:23 PM
11/01/02 07:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Ed Norris Offline
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Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Just an idea...how a towed load could maybe help you tack...

Tie on an extra piece of line, from maybe 10 feet astern on the towline, long enough to reach to the mast, with 4 feet left over.Do not thread this loose line between the tiller bars. Let it lie on top of the slave bar, and tie the very end of this line to the mast. The regular towline is tied to your rear beam, and since there's slack in your "extra line", your towline is taking the load.

Now when you tack, you just take the 'extra line" with you to the old windward aft corner, and camp out there, as in a standard roll tack. A little pull on the 'extra line, from over there, and you'll help your boat bear off. It's a lot to manage, solo, though.

A neater implementation would use two 'extra lines', tied to the shroud adjusters, each loose enough not to go tight when you use the other.

Or how 'bout this? much simpler, and automatic, too.

Tie two tow lines, equal length. route each one through a turning block as far outboard as possible on your rear crossbeam. (You should in many cases be able to just tie a couple on.) The inwale should be okay, the Gunwale would be better. Then tie the ends of the towlines to the slave bar, right next to the tiller mount, If they slip, take 'em right across to the opposite tiller bar. Now when you throw the rudders hard over, i.e. to turn to starboard, you'll shorten the starboard line by a foot and lengthen the port one. By varying the distance behind your boat you set up in the first place, you can amplify the effect until it's not upsetting ordinary sailing, but assists you to come about. With a couple extra turning blocks,(tied to each tiller bar) you could increase the action 1:2, (by taking the ends of the towlines through the new blocks and back to their own side, tying them off near the first set of blocks, at the inwale or gunwale.) for a 2 foot increase and a 2 foot decrease on the other side, and all this without touching a thing while underway.

A four foot differential in the towlines' lengths will put the load firmly on the old windward hull during the tack, so long as you re-set and harden up your jib BEFORE you straighten the rudders, all should be well.

Way, way cool, no?


Waddya think?


Sail Fast, Ed Norris
Re: Stowing stuff on board [Re: Vladimir] #12331
11/01/02 08:49 PM
11/01/02 08:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
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hobiegary  Offline
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Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
That is a cool bag, Vladimir! Do you think that you could jam a sleeping bag in there, through that small hole and then still have enough room for some clothes and food?

I carry a foward cargo tramp when I cruise. I am part of the group in CA, that Tom House mentioned. The Mystere 6.0 has so much buoyancy and freeboard that a cargo tramp ahead of the cross bar works well.

The way I built mine is basically a triangle of nylong netting wihta 3/4" nylon webbing border. The webbing extends at each of the three corners.

One side of the trianlge runs just ahead of the front cross bar. It is stretced taught by the extensions at each corner. They tie to the pad eyes that are riveted on the cross bar for the barber hauler blocks. There is a piece of webbing at teh center with a buckle that snaps around the mast base. This could just as easily be rope, rather than webbing with a buckle.

The third corner extneds forward and has a loop that goes up and arond the spinnaker pole, near the forestay. That corner's extension has a 1/8" rope attached that runs all the way forward to the end of the spin pole and is drawn tight there.

About 18" ahead of the front cross bar, is a 3/4" carbon tube that lays on top of the decks and is sewn to the tramp. This tubing is the lower part of a graphite surf casting fishing pole. Each end of it has some rubber hose covering it to keep it from scratching the decks.

Where the fishing pole crosses under the spin pole, there is another webbing with buckle that attahces there too.

I carry to watertight bags (wall mart $20 -$30) and I have a rip cord system that allows the bags to be released by yanking on a light line that dangles in the water when sailing, hangs from the center of the cargo tramp to the wetted hull when (no, IF) capsized.

Here is how I did the rip cord deal. In the center of the tramp I sewed in some webbing to reinforce the skimpy netting. Inot this webbing I pressed in, two grommets, one per cargo bag.

I have a webbing strap for each bag that has an adjustable buckle, such as a car seat belt. The strap is fastened two places, both on the outboard side of the cargo bag. The center of the strap passes through a loop of bungie. This bungie loop is folded and pushed down though the grommet.

On the bottom side of the tramp, a piece of batten is passed through the loop of bungie and prevents the bungie from raising up through the grommet, unless this batten or rip cord pin is yanked. Finally, one string (bright pink dynema) is tied to both rip cord pins and the rip cord is long enough to reach the wetted hull when the boat is on her side.

Picture attached.
GARY

Attached Files
12567-sci7-3.jpg (256 downloads)

Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: You don't have to carry supplies ON the boat. [Re: Ed Norris] #12332
11/02/02 10:47 AM
11/02/02 10:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 123
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Greg Offline
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Greg  Offline
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Posts: 123
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Thanks Ed,
Neat solutions. My thoughts are that your first solution will definitely work, but I am not so sure of your second trick. I suspect the drag on the rear would inhibit forward progress and cause you to weathervane back into the wind. I may not be thinking straight about this.
Greg
H14, H16

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