Every case of a catamaran trying to tow his supplies that I have heard of has ended in either catastrophic failure or having to move the trailed load onto the catamaran before continuing.

GARY

You may be right Greg. What if we took those two towlines through turning blocks on the shrouds, then back to the back beams, then across to the opposite tiller bar and finally back across to tie off and backbeam ends. Now the load during tacking is on the shrouds, but the unloaded towline will probably foul the old leeward rudder... hm... I think the beam ends or the gunwale at the transom is as good as it gets.

Why don't you get a trawler to carry all your gear and tow your sailboat behind it?

>Do you think that you could jam a sleeping bag in there, through that small hole and then still have enough room for some clothes and food?

Yep. Round hole 8' in diameter isn't a small one
I sailed solo a small home-rebuild Russian-made catamaran(Hobie Wave dimension and perfomance-alike) on three weeklong trips, one from Manistee, Lake Michigan to Alpena, Lake Huron, one from Tampa to Everglades, Fl, and another one along Maine East Coast this year. I had two bags next to front corners of a trampoline. In one I store sleeping bag, all my clothing and tent (I use tarp-over-the-boom setup)
all my food, flashlights, stove, pot, first aid kit, drysuit when not in use, camera goes into second bag. I pack light thougth
I can right my catamaran fully loaded, I have "Bob" on top of the mast. And I have set up and used oars for windless days - Oops, I shouldn't say this

Vladimir
"The Ugly Duckling" Russian catamaran,
Unicorn old wooden A-cat

That is most impressive, Vladimir. I especially respect the fact that you are able to right the boat, even while it is loaded.

Yes, 8" is a pretty large hole. For some reason I was picturing a 6" opening. Those bags are really neat and I must go check them out!

I have been using the Tex-Sport brand waterproof bags. If you have seen them, can you comment on the comparison of the durability of the canvas used in yours and in the Tex-Sport? I have noticed small spots on my bags, where they often bend and fold on the same line, are beginning to loose their rubber coating and beginning to leak a drop or two of water at these spots.

What I really like about those bags you have is that they have flat bottoms. This would be much more stable while underway.

I'd be interested in hearing more about your experiences in these catamaran camping trips. Some questions that come to mind, follow:

What is your choice of stove?
What hot foods do you find work out best for you?
Are you able to look into the bag opening and then grab what you need; or do you have to dump out all the bag's contents and then repack it each time you need an item from inside?
Do you ever have a problem with rain or dew?
Do you lay a tarp down on the tramp or are you able to place your sleeping bag right on the tramp? (mine would never be dry enough)

By the way, I understand the advantage of the float BoB! I recently did some capsize righting lessons on a boat that had one. Just make sure it won't leak and take on water because they can get very very heavy. The buoyancy that they provide is a great safety measure!

Vladimir,
You mentioned tarp over boom. Did you have no problem with mosquitos?
Greg
H14, 16

>I especially respect the fact that you are able to right the boat, even while it is loaded.

My cruising boat is light. It's 160 lbs only. It's collapsible boat with inflatable hulls. Sounds strange isn't? It's not a fast boat, but I can take it on airplane in bags, take a taxi to nearest boat ramp, sail all week long, get out at a town, walk to car rental and get back to airport. Once I been feeding my boat INSIDE of Ford Escort I didn't try it since 9-11, can be a hassle now. "What is inside of your bags, sir?" "Don't worry, it's a sailboat"

Since it's so light, I can drag it on shore. And I don't care about hitting rocks, boat will bounce back,it's inflatable. It performs OK, I've been sailing it with Hobie Waves equally. Also I've taken it in really rough conditions( jib furler and three reef points on the main) I love speed trill and performance of my second boat, A-cat, but I will never take it out of protected bay and sight of land.
I'll try to attach some pictures of the boat now

I started as a kayaker, then kayak sailor, then I got my inflatable, and, recently, A-cat. I've done a lot of cruising in small boats and used different brands and types of drybags. Those drybags superior to any design I used before. Fabric is thick, more like inflatable boat fabric. Unless bag is fully packed, you can open and search for things inside without repacking. On the down side - bags are heavy, and lid's rubber O-ring got loose on one bag, it's staying in place, but I have to watch it for watertight closing

> What is your choice of stove?

It wasn't my choice - I got two Coleman Apex II stoves http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=6934803&prmenbr=226
as a birthday's gifts. I like it but my choice would be Coleman Exponent Multi Fuel Stove
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=8169782&prmenbr=226
It has less parts

>What hot foods do you find work out best for you?

I'm not picky about food. For hot meal I use instant soups and oatmeals. I carry a telescopic fishing rod with me, It folds to 18 inches for storing and have no problem to catch a fish or two for supper. Usually I don't take a pan, but always take a yard of aluminum foil. I grow up in Russia and I know eatable mushrooms and plants, and use them for food. For meat I use dried smoked sausages and jerky
On my recent trip to Michigan I discovered the best jerky I've ever eaten.
http://www.dublinstore.com
I will order some more for my next trip

>Do you ever have a problem with rain or dew?

Congestion is always a problem on the water. I usually sail in drysuit. And I use brands of clothing designed for outdoor, ones which dry fast

>Do you lay a tarp down on the tramp or are you able to place your sleeping bag right on the tramp? (mine would never be dry enough)

Until recently I just lay my sleeping bag on the tramp and used mosquito net http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=73077&cgmenbr=226, attached to the boom, under tarp
I bought camping hammock this summer http://www.lawsonhammock.com/brch.html and I liked it very much. It can be set up on the tramp as enclosed tent or hang between trees...

Sail safe
Vladimir
Russian inflatable cat;
wooden A-cat

we towed a rec kayak loaded with gear, we kept it tethered close to the rear crossbeam, actually lifting the bow of the yak slightly. handling, tacking, was fine . when the wind picked up we felt like we were being slowed too much, kindalike being on a mono...aarghh!

I agree. I would only tow in an emergency.

Greg
H14,H16

Vladimir,

What a great posting you have presented here! I'm sure there are many people who have appreciated it as much as I have. One can learn a lot from your knowlege and experience!

The stove is tempting.

The Jerky is priced about half of what you normally have to pay for cheap jerky and far lower priced than what I have personally seen in a similar store which specializes in jerky. $20-$40 per pound is not unusual. Your find of $10/pound jerky is great.

The hammock tent looks very interesting and I will have to go see one in person sometime. Looks to be a very good choice for all different purpose camping. Great inovation there!

I've seen picutres of the inflateable Russian catamarans and have wondered about them. I sincerely appreciated your posting and comments on this boat. I think your posts are a great testiment to its usefullness and versatility. Wow, fly and rent a car with your boat in tow? That's fantastic!

Tell us more about other places you intend to visit with your camping catamaran. You could be starting a new fad. You know how big kayak fishing has become; at one time there was only one guy doing it! You may just be one of the first of thousands.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience! I'd like to invite you to visit here in Los Angeles where you can probably sail your inflateable to Catalina Island. I'll let you be the judge of that; you can crew on my Mystere if that sounds like a beter ride.

Hope to see you on the water some time.

I'm still trying to find a pic. of my tramp. I have towed a kayak and as long as the water is flat I had no problem. When the waves start,water gets into the yak and you know what happens next. The opening needs to be covered to keep the water out. As far as tacking goes, I've tried a bridle with a block and a couple other things. I found the best way was to tie it near the center up close and use the wake the boat produces to stabilize the yak and if you get it on the right part of the stern wave the yak is almost surfing which reduces drag and makes tacking easier. The type of yak or how well it tracks can make a big difference in how you tow.

The nice thing about towing the yak is you have one more toy to play with when the wind dies.

Mike Catley

Here is one example of what can happen when you try to tow another small craft with your cat. See this url:
http://tinyurl.com/2ftd
GARY
From: GARY
Date: Tue Sep 3, 2002 3:21 pm
Subject: Rough time on TheMightyHobie18 going solo to Catalina




I met Brad at the boatyard and asked him to put his story in print so
that I could post it. I don't think that he has found the time to
subscribe to our group yet. So here is his story:

Gary you asked me to write a story about my trip. Do what you like with
it (edit or re-word if you like). I hope your readers learn something,
like I did.



Friday August 27 ,2002 I was preparing for a catalina trip. This will
be the third attempt. on my previous attempts failure has always been to
scheduling or some other non sail related problem. Well this trip was no
different my crewman canceled on me. I've decided to go it solo, leave
on Saturday morning and come home on Monday. Explaining my trip to Gary
Friesen and taking some sailing tips I feel confident. Gary invites me
for afternoon sail on his boat, what a wonderful experience.



Saturday August 28, 2002 8:00 am. I'm adding the last of the camping
gear and food. Partly cloudy. warm. visibility 5 miles, "note to myself
humid and high cirrusclouds" very light winds. All looks good.



9:30 am CAST OFF.. all fine. I decided to tow my one man outrigger
canoe (similar to a surf ski). to do some up close exploration of the
island. Very slow going in the harbor.



10:30 am Finally The harbor mouth. Heading 180. light winds but
building.



12:00 noon Approx. 3-4 miles off the Pt. Vicente lighthouse. Winds
now 10-15. Seas 1 - 3 ft. One last check of my equipment. A small pod of
Dolphins show up to say hello. Beautiful. onto the final leg.



2:00 pm Approx. 5-6 miles from Santa Catalina Winds 15-20 Seas 2- 4
ft and very short. Time for the wet suit. Now things get interesting.
Driving down wind coming up behind a wave the cargo tramp acted just
like a reverse hydo foil pushing both bows completely under approx. 1 ft
of green water over the tramp. At this point i have to re- stow most of
my gear since the cargo net is broken. Ihave lost my food and my
extra-dry clothes. Ten minutes later a wave hits the outrigger canoe the
canoe nosedives the tow line goes taught and "BAMM" the cross member the
canoe snaps in the process peeling the fiberglass off the forward
section of the canoe. So at this point I decide to try to tack up wind
to get a good line on trying to pick up the canoe. WRONG as i tacked the
the clew of the main sail came un attached from the boom. Seas still
building. I immediately furled the jib and pulled up the rudders. The
sail was hard over against the shrouds. I leaned some how without
falling off the boat and grabbed the bottom batten of the sail and just
started pulling. small cut on hand after a few minutes seemed like an
eternity managed to get the boat in irons. grabbed the boom and
miraculously on the first time re-pinned the main. huge breath of air.



3:30 pm Approx. 2-3 miles from the island closer to the North End. Wind
25+ Seas 5-6 ft. very short and steep. Decide that turning back and
heading home was more prudent than trying to fine shelter on the island
minus dry gear. Course 000 due north "home". The next hour i had my
hands full. White caps breaking completely across hulls and tramp. Wind
is picking up water making very difficult to see. the wind was coming
underneath the tramp blowing it up at times. That got my attention. The
boat was hitting the swells so hard i thought it was going to break. the
hulls were make the most awful sounds of stress.



5:00 pm approx. 5 miles offshore from Redondo Beach. Winds 10-15
dropping quickly. Seas 2-4 ft. The cold sets in. no dry gear no food and
now no sun. Sea sick. The dolphins show up to guide me home. a small
pod of dolphin stayed with me for at least an hour. I felt much better.
Now feeling confident I would make it home.



9:00 pm "safe" Marina del Rey. had to paddle the boat the 1/4 mile in
the harbor no wind.



11:00 pm I called the Sheriff to inform them that I had lost my
canoe at sea. Just in case somebody found it they wouldn't think that
there was a person attached to it. They didn't care not even asked me my
name.





I hope my experience will maybe keep somebody out of trouble. I think to
my self, what did i learn. 1. forward cargo nets are a bad idea in seas
the added weight almost pichpoled me. 2. Never tow anything. It not only
slows you down. increases the possibility of things going wrong. In
addition makes it very difficult to tack. 3. Have some sort of locking
pin for the clew of the main sail a quick pin is not sufficient. 4.
Don't panic.



I have been around the water my entire life. Competitive surfing, member
of world class outrigger canoe team, ex U.S. Coast Guard stationed at
Channel Island Harbor and The Point Bridge. I have been Hobie sailing
only for about 3 years but I go year around and usually more than twice
a week. If anybody has any input. I am willing to learn

Gary!
Thanks for warm words your find for me!
I think about beach catamaran as a perfect coastal cruising boat. And I enjoyed your story at "On the wire" magazine. Cruising can be as much joy as racing.
Another product I didn't mention on my previous post is inflatable rollers such as made by http://www.praktek.com/ Using them anyone can roll heavy boat up a shore

Reading the story about ordeal you friend had, I wonder how important to be prepared for worst. I always curry survival kit on the back of my life jacket. Here is a great article from Watertribe site about how to make and use one.
http://www.watertribe.com/Magazine/Challenge/ArticleWhenGodsPlay.asp

I have a few packs of "Body Warmer" or "Heat Packs", chemical stuff - it gets warm with contact with air and hold temperature for 6-8 hrs http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1027&prmenbr=226 and drop it inside of my drysuit when getting hypotermic

Hope to see you on the water
Vlad

I have built the third or forth generation of my cargo tramp and have posted pictures. I am not proud of the pictures, but I am looking forward to using the new design. I hope it helps others who are considering trying the same kind of thing.Cargo Trampoline Pictures

I live in the UK - well actually I don't I live in the other channel Islands - in the English Channel - a crown protectorate rather than a country or part of the UK - long story - war with the French - invasion in 1066 - French revolution and here we are 14 miles from the french caost and part of Great Britain. Odd

Anyway the ideas here are great and I'm ging to set to building a cargo trmap for my Dart 20 - it doesn't have a genny pole so i wondered if anyone had any thoughts about what I could use instead - I thought of jack stay / cargo webbing really taught - or PVC pole - or an old carbon canoe paddle ?

Cheers
Dan

Dart 20 - 'Wildthing'

Dan,

My previous edition used the decks, rather than the spinnaker pole, for vertical support. Here is a not so good picture:
cargo tramp
and here is another:
Whisk on the rock beach

The trampoline was a trapezoid shape; a rectangle would be fine also. The back of the cargo tramp was supported by the front cross bar and the front of the cargo tramp was supported by a carbon fiber fishing pole base section. The carbon pole spanned the decks and was wraped with rubber hose to protect the decks from scratching.

The forward pole was held in tension with low stretch line that ran forward and attached to the fore stay bridle wire tangs. I did use some support on the center of the pole, up to the spinnaker pole. But I think that you could run a line from the forward pole center, up to the top of the fore stay bridle. This line would not be needed if the forward tramp pole was rigid enough to suspend the cargo load without much flexing.

GARY

Thanks alot - I'll get building and mail some pictures - anyone got any ideas what to do for wheels when we get to France. There are now 4 boats in our flotilla !

Dan

I have had a great season with my Dart 20' , but have decided that I'm going onto the next level !!
I'm going to swop it for a nacra 5.8 (better weather capabilty) , it's always nice to be able to see the leewrd hull.... anyhoo , I'm going to make a box to straddle the fwd spar , like a hobie 21sc , and make some lockers in the hulls with water tight hatches, i'm also going to stow a small (2.5hp) ouboard in the box for when the wind dies - very nearly ended up in France a few weeks back.....
Dan