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Re: Tradewinds??? [Re: PTP] #129175
01/22/08 02:06 PM
01/22/08 02:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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tback  Offline
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Orlando, FL
Matt heard there was RUM on the beach...wanted to be sure to get his share before everyone else got in <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


USA 777
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Re: Tradewinds??? [Re: PTP] #129176
01/22/08 02:27 PM
01/22/08 02:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
They were right beside us after the B mark in the first race, first lap, (but running a bit deeper, see photo) with the kite up when they stuffed it and flipped. Someone hit the main (Gina?) and pulled it out of the mast track halfway up, while someone else (Matt?) hit the boom and put a "speed bend" in it. They went in to fix it all but never returned, Revenge of the Rum maybe?

Check out the roostertails on the wakes of both boats! This was on the short reach to B mark, thus no spinns up yet.

Attached Files
Last edited by Timbo; 01/22/08 03:26 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: sail7seas] #129177
01/22/08 02:31 PM
01/22/08 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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All the starts were 3 minutes apart, I20's first, then F18's then F16's. There were times when we were near some of each but I think only because they had flipped and recovered. It was very hard to keep track of who was where because one minute they were "right there" and the next minute, gone...swimming. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Seth and Stephan (Taipan 4.9 F16) got a taste of the old Karma after they laughed at us as they passed us while we were recovering from one dump, Seth was yelling, "I've got you now you Mother F'rs..." or words to that effect as they screamed by. We were hot to catch them once we got going again, next thing I know, they are gone. On the next lap I see them tied to a crash boat, mast down. Karma's a Bitch! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We did pass one F18 and one I20 going upwind on one lap late in the day, can't tell you who, where, when or why.

Last edited by Timbo; 01/22/08 03:59 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: Wouter] #129178
01/22/08 04:09 PM
01/22/08 04:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 267
Switzerland
alutz Offline
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alutz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 267
Switzerland
Nice Pictures Wouter!

I was very cool to be at the Tradewinds regatta and we had al lot of fun!
A great thanks to everybody who was there, I really enjoyed the great hospitality there!

The place has a great Caribbean ambiance with palm trees, turquoise waters and a little beach
And it was blowing too! There was a gusty wind blowing with 20kn – 25kn.

> Tim and Andi are serious heavy air sailors!
I really enjoyed sailing in these conditions but would not consider myself as a serious heavy air sailor.

We had our fair share of swimming and capsized 3 times.

>What did Andreas think of the boat?
The Blade F16 is definitely a little pocket rocket! The boat is well balanced and very sensitive to sail with moderate sheet loads.

I would have really liked to see what the Blade could do against other boats in these conditions. I think we were definitely in the ball park.

Tim gave me the tiller and he was grinding the mainsheet.
Upwind I think this is what made the biggest speed difference, his constant trimming made the boat really going in the puffs.

Downwind we tried to single trapeze, but almost pitchpolled on the first downwind leg.
[Linked Image]
So we played it safe and we both sat it out on the tramp. Tim had one foot on the daggerboard to ensure he stays at the back of the bus, while I sat below him with my back at the rear beam.

To bad the weather didn't play with us on sunday!


Andi, Switzerland
Team OST
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: alutz] #129179
01/23/08 06:26 AM
01/23/08 06:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 267
Switzerland
alutz Offline
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alutz  Offline
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Posts: 267
Switzerland
Quote
Tim gave me the tiller and he was grinding the mainsheet.


Hehe, Ringer Tim grinding the mainsheet ...

It looked more like this:
He was working his a__ off!
His hands were bleeding, had blisters and his rubber gloves were worn through after the races.

A true effort and he made it easy for me to keep the hull out of the water. Without his effort, I could have sailed no where near as fast.

Ringer Andi <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by alutz; 01/23/08 06:31 AM.

Andi, Switzerland
Team OST
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: alutz] #129180
01/25/08 11:09 AM
01/25/08 11:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline OP
old hand
tshan  Offline OP
old hand
T

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
There is a good post on the CABB forum of Catsailor about rescue efforts at Tradewinds.

At the end he mentions a Taipan demasting. Was that Seth/Stefan? What happened? Any permanent damage to crew or boat?


Tom
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: tshan] #129181
01/25/08 01:34 PM
01/25/08 01:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
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Posts: 3,348
Yep, team S&S. I think Stefan got slammed forward during a violent pitch-pole and sheared off the stanchion(?) at deck level. The boat went home with Matt for repairs, the bruise went home with Stefan!

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: fin.] #129182
01/25/08 01:48 PM
01/25/08 01:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline OP
old hand
tshan  Offline OP
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Eastern NC, USA
Ouch.... you talking about ripping the shroud/sidestay anchor out of the hull?


Tom
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: tshan] #129183
01/25/08 02:11 PM
01/25/08 02:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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Posts: 3,348
Sort of. That is a welded piece and the weld let go. No damage to the boat, just to Stefan's hip. He had a noticable limp on Sunday.

They would be very competitive if they would just back off a little bit.

If the winds are heavy in March, and Chris Stater is here sailing like he did at JPOR, he will be tough to beat. Whoever swims least will be the winner!

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: tback] #129184
01/25/08 04:27 PM
01/25/08 04:27 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote
Notice in the bottom photo the mast rotation is pointing to the side-stay (fully powered up). Reading back in previous post, many suggest rotating back towards the rear beam; however, looking at many of the photos (Tornado, I20, F18, F16) it seems that most have their mast rotated way out.

Granted, Andi and Tim ate ...errrrrrr... alot of pizza and drank many beers on Friday night .... but .....

What is the current conventional wisdom on mast rotation in 20+ knots of wind?


Man, I wish you guys weren't so cool in person. It would be easier to have a go at you here <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Terry, is Tina an awesome crew or what! You two did a great job at Twinds

Nice to meet you Andi. I hope the Keys lived up to your expectations.

what worked for me with the rotator on the Blade was that I didn't travel out and brought the rotator in from behind the shroud until I felt the boat climb upwind. This setting was always different as conditions aren't usually exactly the same, but when we sailed the boat in +/- 20 I had the rotator between where the rear crossbar met the hull and the hiking strap. The boat literally "took off" going upwind when I found the right setting. The rotator has to be adjusted a lot on these wing masts, which adds another layer into the fun of sailing! It is a really fun boat to sail upwind in those conditions.

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: ] #129185
01/29/08 03:34 PM
01/29/08 03:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote
Quote
Notice in the bottom photo the mast rotation is pointing to the side-stay (fully powered up). Reading back in previous post, many suggest rotating back towards the rear beam; however, looking at many of the photos (Tornado, I20, F18, F16) it seems that most have their mast rotated way out.

Granted, Andi and Tim ate ...errrrrrr... alot of pizza and drank many beers on Friday night .... but .....

What is the current conventional wisdom on mast rotation in 20+ knots of wind?


Man, I wish you guys weren't so cool in person. It would be easier to have a go at you here <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Terry, is Tina an awesome crew or what! You two did a great job at Twinds

Nice to meet you Andi. I hope the Keys lived up to your expectations.

what worked for me with the rotator on the Blade was that I didn't travel out and brought the rotator in from behind the shroud until I felt the boat climb upwind. This setting was always different as conditions aren't usually exactly the same, but when we sailed the boat in +/- 20 I had the rotator between where the rear crossbar met the hull and the hiking strap. The boat literally "took off" going upwind when I found the right setting. The rotator has to be adjusted a lot on these wing masts, which adds another layer into the fun of sailing! It is a really fun boat to sail upwind in those conditions.


This the reigning Alter Cup Champ. Take notes.

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: fin.] #129186
01/29/08 06:17 PM
01/29/08 06:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Hey, did you guys take him up on his offer to do a seminar on boat handing and trim for you ?

I would have swallow my pride and drop to my knees in gratitude for that offer ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: Wouter] #129187
01/29/08 08:03 PM
01/29/08 08:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
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fin.  Offline
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Nope! I couldn't get any takers. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: fin.] #129188
01/29/08 10:09 PM
01/29/08 10:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
I think it was more of a timing thing, not enough people could show up.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: fin.] #129189
01/30/08 01:08 PM
01/30/08 01:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
addict
Matt M  Offline
addict

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Quote
Nope! I couldn't get any takers. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


This stuff is not rocket surgery. All as you are doing is attempting to keep the mast rotated such that there is a smooth transition from the mast to the sail, no kink or bend in or out. More down haul, flatter sail, less rotation. Go out on your boat and mark the position where the rotation and downhaul match by looking up the mast while sailing. This is your starting point and just adjust flatter by using both settings from there as the wind picks up. Typically for a full sail this is about 2/3 down haul distance and the rotator about 1/2 way between the db trunk and the rear cross bar. This varies for every mast and sail also with how much prebend you have in the mast, so the magic point is different for everyone and you need to find it for yourself. If your spreader rake is in the ball park, 1 item to note for the VMI Blades is that if you see the spreaders interfering with the jib going up wind, you can bet you are rotated out too far. This gives poor flow around the back side, cuases the top to kink and the leach to then flutter all while not allowing the top to twist off so is slow and feels over powered. By over rotating in board as noted by JC in a blow, the top of the mast spills of becuase these are very soft in sideways bending and bleeds off a lot of excess power while keeping the sail full down low. By controliing the sail power and keeping in control, you can get great hull speed and this is what then translates into the percieved pointing ability as the hulls and foils start working for you.

M

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: Matt M] #129190
01/30/08 03:04 PM
01/30/08 03:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
[/quote]
This stuff is not rocket surgery.
M [/quote]

Good, not that I was going to operate on any rockets. That's for THE Chuck and Fearless Rider.

Matt, what is so blatanly obvious to you is unfathomable to me. That's why you finish so far ahead of me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: fin.] #129191
01/30/08 05:25 PM
01/30/08 05:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
addict
Matt M  Offline
addict

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Quote

Matt, what is so blatanly obvious to you is unfathomable to me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


I apologize for any percieved impressions that may come across due to the forum as no disrespect was meant.

My point was that there are a very few and usually simple concepts involved in sailing. With a simple search I can easily find 100s of posts addressing mast rotation. Most are very generic with advice like point it at the daggerboard or rudder etc. as if you can hook up a knot meter to scale your settings. This position may be correct for certain points of sail but it is not a cure all position. Luckily if you are tuned in the ball park, it really will not make much if any difference to your performance. (i.e. if you are going slow, for most of us there is a very high probablility it will not be corrected buy any tuning adjustment you can make it is all in the tiller and the sheet, in fact having your head in the boat and worrying about them is likely to further slow you down)Boat settings and tuning are just a very small part of performance. This is why I really love sailing. Everytime I go out I feel like I have learned a little more. I have come a very long way from my first day with a boat having to get rescued, yet I get in events where it is obvious I am still a beginner.

--Go that way VERY FAST, if something gets in your way; TURN

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: Matt M] #129192
01/30/08 06:22 PM
01/30/08 06:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
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<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: fin.] #129193
02/16/08 11:14 AM
02/16/08 11:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Bump: Hey, can we talk about sailing again or would that be too much to ask??

Gulfport, who's in? I've heard lots of F16's coming down from up north, VA, TN, ATL, etc. Yes? Might be 16 of them? Who's sailing Uni and who's with crew? Thanks.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Team Lutz / Bohan in pictures [Re: Matt M] #129194
02/16/08 01:21 PM
02/16/08 01:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 396
Annapolis Md.
LuckyDuck Offline
enthusiast
LuckyDuck  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 396
Annapolis Md.
Well said Matt. If I can offer just a bit of phillisophical indulgance here with what a very wise sailor told me once. Its not so much about going fast, its about going slow less often. Ed


Still hazey after all these beers.
F-16 Falcon #212
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