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How do you say taht is a really dumb idea #130981
02/05/08 11:19 PM
02/05/08 11:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline OP
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carlbohannon  Offline OP
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Houston
In Houston, this is boat show season. It's the time of year that you see novice sailors with their new or new-old boat launching in bad locations and bad weather because they just can't wait any longer.

For example:

It's Feb about 4pm
Wind is 15 with gusts to 25 and there is a front coming in
It's paved parking lot with concrete ramps designed for power boats.
There is no beach, just rocks and seawalls.
Two guys in shorts and life jackets have rigged an old H16 (badly) on the trailer with jib and main up.
The boat is about stern to the wind, so they can back the trailer down the ramp.
The two guys are trying untie the boat from the trailer but it keeps trying to fly.
You figure, if they can get the boat into the water and turned around, they are going right into a bridge or the rocks


I have often wondered if we have an obligation to tell people like this, "This is really not a good idea"

If it's a family with little kids, I at least drive by and ask, "have you done this before" and if they don't argue you can mention it would be better if they went down to the Dike when there are other Cat Sailors around, they might have a fighting chance to get the boat back in one piece.

This time I tried something different. I wandered up with my camera and asked "can I take your picture, I always wanted a picture of a cat flipping onto a car".

They stopped and listened a minute and then there was an act of God, it started to rain, hard, and they started talking about how they were going to take the boat down

I think next time I will just ask "Can I take your picture. I am collecting pictures for a book and I think this belongs in the chapter on things not to do, you know, the chapter on really stupid things I have seen people do"

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: carlbohannon] #130982
02/05/08 11:38 PM
02/05/08 11:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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A few weekends ago we spotted a beach cat (caper cat I think) with its sails down bobbing around in the middle of the bay, about 15 knots blowing and a bit of chop.

We sailed up to them to ask them if they needed a hand but they were playing with the forestay and said they were fine. They weren't fine so we sailed around within sight of them with the occasional sail past to double check they didn't want a hand. Eventually the mast fell so now they were trying to step the mast! No way was it going to happen with the chop that was about.

Eventually a couple of yachts congregated and convinced them to accept a tow back to shore. Lucky, because we blew up our rudder box and were in no state to tow them back upwind. They'd drifted deep into the bay, if they'd gone any further, there wouldn't of been as many yachts around to help (they were in the middle of the channel) and may've ended up on the other side of the bay in the middle of the night.

Unfortunately an experience like that discourages enthusiastic potential sailors and gives sailing a bad reputation. Lots of wind may look like fun, but without some basic skills, sailing is tricky.

If you see n00bs getting or about to get into trouble, stop and help them.

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: ncik] #130983
02/06/08 08:57 AM
02/06/08 08:57 AM
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brucat Offline
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Yes, always try to help. The key word is "try." Carl is right, it's all in how you approach it, but more likely, how willing they are to listen.

I know I did some REALLY bad things when I started sailing Hobies (wound up upside down, overnight, and alone once), but I was young and was completely convinced that I knew what I was doing. Hey, the dealer sold me "everything" I needed...

And that is why I will NEVER, EVER, EVER leave the beach without a radio again, about 15 years later.

And since I started sailing with my wife, and especially since we now have a son, we have a whole additional set of "rules" on whether or not to rig the boat in the morning.

Mike

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: carlbohannon] #130984
02/06/08 09:50 AM
02/06/08 09:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
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Things can happen to experienced sailors too. We helped an accomplished big boat sailor rig his H16 that had sat in the lot for like 4 years, he needed a refresher. Things were going well, the mast was up (on the trailer), he was "good to go" so we went for a quick spin on our already rigged boat. Expecting him to be on the water after what seemed forever, we went back to see what was up? He explained that one of his son's friends had accidentaly yanked on the main halyard, sending the business end to the top of the mast, and after much deliberation decided he should be the one to shinny up there and retrieve it! Which is exactly what he did! The thought never crossed his mind to lay down the mast or take the boat off the trailer and flip sideways.


John H16, H14
Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: carlbohannon] #130985
02/06/08 10:10 AM
02/06/08 10:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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yeah, well, I made my first launch with my 5.2 back in 1999 that way. Sails up, on the trailer, backing into the wind down the ramp. Fortunately it wasn't very windy but it was just breezy enough to make me struggle with the boat for a bit in the really chilly winter water. It was a really dumb way to go nooby sailing and though I came out of it unharmed and undaunted, it could have easily ended badly if any decent wind had shown up - I wish Carl had been around to "take my picture"!


Jake Kohl
Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: brucat] #130986
02/06/08 10:23 AM
02/06/08 10:23 AM
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brucat Offline
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And that is why I will NEVER, EVER, EVER leave the beach without a radio again, about 15 years later.


Before anyone gets the wrong idea; no, I don't carry the radio because I expect the world to save me from my own stupidity. That's just a last-resort deal. I also don't sail solo anymore, always dress for the conditions, and won't sail if I'm the only boat on the body of water (there's usually a good reason for that in Newport)...

Mike

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: brucat] #130987
02/06/08 10:52 AM
02/06/08 10:52 AM

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I certainly have had my share of errors and rigging problems…. But it can be fun to watch others struggle (especially when they don’t need/want help). My biggest problem is I VERY reluctant to ask for help.

A few years ago, we had a new guy on the beach who had a plethera of troubles his first season. I had owned a Hobie 16 for many years and had walked up and offered him advice on several occasions when I saw something way out of wack.

One of the funnier times was when he stepped the mast on the trailer, and then raised the jib and main. He struggled fearcly (since his boat was stern into the wind in about 13 knots) to raise the main.

When he was finally rigged he walked over to me and asked, " now how do i get it off the trailer?" I explained that if the beach wasnt so packed he could turn the trailer around into the wind, but since it would be almost imposible with the limited room, I suggested he lower his sails and then remove the cat from the trailer. He did.

I then saw him again raising his sails with the sterns into the wind. I walked over to him and explained it would be much easier bows into the wind. He didn't listen.

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: carlbohannon] #130988
02/06/08 02:14 PM
02/06/08 02:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
MUST429 Offline
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Several years ago I was on the beach at Canyon Lake for the Longneck Regatta. While there I noticed a couple of guys rigging a H-18. There were several things that were "incorrect". rather that approach them by pointing out that what they were doing was "wrong" I asked them if the would like to know a "better way" to rig the boat that would make it faster.
Sometime's it is all in the way you approach someone. Those two gentleman became VERY good frinds of mine, a frindship that survives to this day.
"Strangers are just Friends we haven't yet met"

Stephen
H-18


Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: MUST429] #130989
02/06/08 04:19 PM
02/06/08 04:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
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Seattle,Wa
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rather that approach them by pointing out that what they were doing was "wrong" I asked them if the would like to know a "better way" to rig the boat that would make it faster.
Sometime's it is all in the way you approach someone.


I agree!

While stationed at Biloxi, MS I had the occasion to come upon a family trying to step the mast on an H16 at the beach. What made it especially difficult was that he was not using the hinge pin, nor was he trying to hinge it up at all. He was trying to lift it straight up into the mast base!

I walked up and asked just like you did. "Would you be interested in an easier method?"

He was more than happy to have some help. So much so that I got free use of the boat, that was parked on the beach, for the whole summer I was stationed there. Many good times were had on, and under that boat that summer... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: Don_Atchley] #130990
02/06/08 04:25 PM
02/06/08 04:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
I've given up on using a boat launch. It is always a PIA. A busy day on the lake around here has many impatient fisherman that don't want me plugging on of the holes at the ramp for 5min while I pull the sails up. On the other hand launching from a swim beach gets many curious people asking questions and looking. Other than a regatta, or a fleet event I've only ran into another cat on the water once in the 4 seasons I've been sailing.

I wish someone had been around when I was making stupid mistakes.[Linked Image]

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: Karl_Brogger] #130991
02/06/08 05:36 PM
02/06/08 05:36 PM

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Wow Karl, that kinda stinks. One of the things i like best about cat sailing is the camaraderie. I guess i am spoiled down here in Sailors Meca (Dunedin Fl)

I used to use a boat ramp several times when i lived near downtown Tampa (that was the nearest way into the water)

I always feared of tire slippage down the ramp!!!! or not being able to pull the cat up the ramp.... but that never happened.

One time i did hit some low lying branches driving away from the ramp. It ripped my mast right off the trailer and swong out infront of my car and then hit a parked car driver window ( i have never used a bungy to tied down since!).

I dont know how, but it didnt even scratch the window. Needless to say, I left the area quickly

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Last edited by andrewscott; 02/06/08 05:39 PM.
Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: Don_Atchley] #130992
02/06/08 05:37 PM
02/06/08 05:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline
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Santiago, Chile
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What made it especially difficult was that he was not using the hinge pin, nor was he trying to hinge it up at all. He was trying to lift it straight up into the mast base!


That's how I first attempted to raise mine too... it worked fine with the Laser II <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: Andinista] #130993
02/06/08 06:37 PM
02/06/08 06:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
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I'm NOT saying I'm smarter than your average Bear, (shut up Carl)

BEFORE, I rigged my first used boat, a Prindle 18 (classic)
around 1988,
I DID read the manual, which discussed things like stepping the mast-safely, rigging, wind direction for rigging, never rigging sails on the trailer, etc., etc.,

Since then, I've gladly, without an attitude, helped many people realize that there was standardized ways to do things while rigging for safety, and ease.

HOw about the guy that attempts to step the mast in 18+mph winds. He's doing things right with the boat still strapped to the trailer, but it's head to wind. After two people struggle, you suggest RAISING the mast, and lowering for that matter, stern to wind. They're amazed how easy, like remote control it now is, and the wind now holds it up without a struggle, while the crew attaches the forestay.
THEN you suggest taking it off the trailer, and pointing head to wind to hoist the sheets, and you're now a hero (in your own mind anyway)


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: Todd_Sails] #130994
02/06/08 09:55 PM
02/06/08 09:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline
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Andinista  Offline
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I'm NOT saying I'm smarter than your average Bear, (shut up Carl)

BEFORE, I rigged my first used boat, a Prindle 18 (classic)
around 1988,
I DID read the manual, which discussed things like stepping the mast-safely, rigging, wind direction for rigging, never rigging sails on the trailer, etc., etc.,


yeah.. in my case I didn't have a manual, in fact I didn't even have a mast yet, it was still an undrilled extrusion with no more than the mast step. I rigged it with ropes, with the real shrouds and stay just taped somehow. The idea was to verify if my measurements and CAD drawing were right. (I'm a specialist in drilling holes in the wrong spot...). But you are right, I thought I knew everything and didn't even search for a manual to download. (I did shortly after that, anyway...). The only one that was there to help me and discuss the procedure was the gardener (and he sure told me it was a bad idea!...).

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: Andinista] #130995
02/07/08 09:28 AM
02/07/08 09:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
couldn't resist it
Codblow Offline
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couldn't resist it
How do you say taht is a really dumb

when you dudes have worked it out try it on yur honoured president Mr Bush and do us all a favour <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: Codblow] #130996
02/07/08 09:47 AM
02/07/08 09:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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when you dudes have worked it out try it on yur honoured president Mr Bush and do us all a favour


The beauty in a working democracy is that a president gets reviewed every four years (in the USA) After eight years you gotta go no matter what. This is year 8 so now we are struggling with which goof gets to muck it up for the next 4-8 years. I posted this photo 4 year ago and took some heat. Maybe its time to post it again. Don't look if your still a "W" fan. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: David Parker] #130997
02/07/08 09:54 AM
02/07/08 09:54 AM

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what happened to Cheney's nose? did he shoot it off? Wait, i thought they took away his gun after he shot his friends nose off?

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: ] #130998
02/07/08 10:11 AM
02/07/08 10:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Andrew, you had to see the movie. Here is an image you might find more familiar. (Again, "W" fans, don't look). No disrespect intended. Well, maybe just a bit. I'm very, very thankful we can say "That is a really dumb idea" in the voters booth.

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Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: David Parker] #130999
02/07/08 10:35 AM
02/07/08 10:35 AM

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LOL!!!!

Re: How do you say taht is a really dumb idea [Re: ] #131000
02/07/08 10:52 AM
02/07/08 10:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Portland, Maine
the only thing I fear in the future is what everyone on the internet will turn their negative energy to when Bush is no longer in office.

Back on topic, when I see someone making mistakes rigging, I usually roll up and start a conversation first... ask them how long they've been doing this, and usually start offering tips. If they aren't receptive to my pointers, I usually just say "well have fun out there."

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