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Straight question to Macca #131493
02/14/08 07:48 AM
02/14/08 07:48 AM
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waynemarlow Offline OP
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Macca can I ask you a direct question, its neither slanging nor praising but I feel its a question that the forum users need a straight answer.

Are you professionally paid or associated through professional requirements to a catamaran manufacturer / s, if so would you declare which manufacturer that is.

Your answer may have quite a bearing on your forum messages.

Last edited by waynemarlow; 02/14/08 07:50 AM.
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Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: waynemarlow] #131494
02/14/08 08:31 AM
02/14/08 08:31 AM
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waynemarlow Offline OP
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Sort of a deafening silence on this one Andrew, you definately have been online since I posted this message.

I just feel that if a professional sailor is making statements on an amatuer forum then he /she should declare their paymasters, in the business world this would be considered the right thing to do.

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: waynemarlow] #131495
02/14/08 08:51 AM
02/14/08 08:51 AM
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fin. Offline
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Indeed! For me, the credibility question is no longer a question.

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: fin.] #131496
02/14/08 08:57 AM
02/14/08 08:57 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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Or he wants to sleep on how to best answer this, as it is night in Oz now.

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #131497
02/14/08 09:58 AM
02/14/08 09:58 AM
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Wouter Offline
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That assumes that Macca (mr Andrew McP) is actually in Australia at this time !

He may be but he also may well not be !

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/14/08 09:58 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: Wouter] #131498
02/14/08 10:01 AM
02/14/08 10:01 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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Right, did not think about that one..

BTW Wouter, your PM box is full.

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #131499
02/14/08 03:38 PM
02/14/08 03:38 PM
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Australia
macca Offline
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So everyone on here should declare their commercial interests?


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Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: macca] #131500
02/14/08 03:54 PM
02/14/08 03:54 PM
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fin. Offline
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No. Just you.

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: fin.] #131501
02/14/08 04:10 PM
02/14/08 04:10 PM
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Australia
macca Offline
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So nobody else on here has any commercial interest/potential interest in the class?

I work for several groups involved in sailing. My interest here is more from a personal perspective with a background in the business.

How about we focus on the issues rather than the personal attacks??


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Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: macca] #131502
02/14/08 04:21 PM
02/14/08 04:21 PM
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Quote

How about we focus on the issues rather than the personal attacks??


As far as I can understand it, you and Steven want to add weight to the F16, but are not class members.


Most of the rest of us want to leave the class all up weight as it is.

Fair summary?


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: scooby_simon] #131503
02/14/08 04:27 PM
02/14/08 04:27 PM
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Australia
macca Offline
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That and a number of other issues such as material restrictions and general tightening of the rules.

Maybe if the class is so concerned about the discussion they should take the forum to a class members only environment?


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Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: macca] #131504
02/14/08 04:40 PM
02/14/08 04:40 PM
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Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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My name is Tom Shannon.

I sail F16s recreationally in the Southeastern US.

I am a member of the US F16 Class Association.

I have no commercial interests in building, equipping or selling anything related to sailing.

I joined a "box rule/formula" class knowing that faster designs could be created (even using antiquated building materials/bypassing exotic materials) that met class rules.

I accepted this risk, in return for a boat that allows me to sail more often (1 up or 2 up). Being light factored into my decision of make/model of boat to purchase.

If someone would like to invest a fortune to beat me around the race course, then so be it. I'd call them an idiot, then buy them a beer and ask "why?".

Anyone else?


Tom
Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: tshan] #131505
02/14/08 04:59 PM
02/14/08 04:59 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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Guys,

remember that anything said here will reflect back on the class, not just the poster.

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: tshan] #131506
02/14/08 05:04 PM
02/14/08 05:04 PM
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Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Hi,

My name is Klaus. I own a Dart 18 and soon a Javeline 16, hence I am not a F16 class member.

I have no other interests in sailing than having fun.

I can accept, if somebody sails faster than me, for whatever reason.

I can accept, if somebody does not share my opinion.

I like to read/write posts here, because most people are open minded and try to answer questions related to sailing.

I like the F16 concept as it is, because it is a class for sailors and not for builders.

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: Smiths_Cat] #131507
02/14/08 05:10 PM
02/14/08 05:10 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Quote

Hi,

My name is Klaus...
etc etc etc


Is this thread turning into an AA meeting? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The only "commercial" relationship that I know of Macca is his sponsorship of Nacra (Right Macca?).
As far as I know this would not conflict with the F16 class in any way as they are totally non-related (F18 vs F16).

Last edited by Tony_F18; 02/14/08 05:13 PM.
Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: macca] #131508
02/14/08 06:06 PM
02/14/08 06:06 PM
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fin. Offline
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Quote
That and a number of other issues such as material restrictions and general tightening of the rules.

Maybe if the class is so concerned about the discussion they should take the forum to a class members only environment?


I have a much better idea.

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: tshan] #131509
02/14/08 08:35 PM
02/14/08 08:35 PM
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Wouter Offline
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My name is Wouter Hijink

I have no commericial ties to any boating related aspect, F16 ior otherwise.

I do have a strong personal tie to the F16 class by virtue of being a co-founder of that class and actually owning a F16.

I'm still paying some F16 class bills out of my own pocket, I consider that my class membership fee.

I believe in the open F16 forum were also non-F16 owning members can have their say.

I believe that people making strong claims or using harsh language should be prepared to be replied to in kind.

I also believe that everybody should fully identify themselves when making strong claims or proposing F16 rule changes.

I believe that we should not have ANY rule changes without having a clearly defined and well proven need to do so.

I have a very strong dislike of non-scientific discourse and most severely reject any unproofable "believes".

I believe it is foolish to regulate any millionair from spending his fortune on F16 BLING, such people will always find ways to waste money irrespectibally whether it actually leads to performance gains or not.

I believe the performance of a sailboat is governed by only very few basic parameters. Limiting these is enough to garantee fair racing between boats of different make, irrespectibally of how much money is spend.

I believe that a kilogram of aluminium weights just as much as a kilogram of gold and that economically speaking it is more wise to buy aluminium when presented with such a choice. This is called self regulation and it works !


I also believe that I have a full resume on mr. Andrew McP. (Macca) and some others but that it is more polite to allow these people to disclose their resumes and economical linkages themselves.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/14/08 08:45 PM.
Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: Wouter] #131510
02/15/08 12:32 AM
02/15/08 12:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
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taipanfc Offline
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A lot of believes there Wouter.

But also admitting that you will fight fire with fire, that isn't one way to make the class more attractive. Doesn't really breed for conducive informed discussion as some people may hold back from posting as they may be brought down by more "informed" posters. This place isn't Sailing Anarchy.

Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: taipanfc] #131511
02/15/08 01:41 AM
02/15/08 01:41 AM
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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I wouldn't say F16 and F18 aren't linked at all... Nacra could be interested since AHPC has 'officially' launched a F16 now.

Making the minimum weight higher could allow Nacra to use parts they use on the F18 on the F16. Meaning economy of scale and less risk if their project fails.

I know they would have to come up with new hulls, etc. but the only Infusion type hull Nacra has at the moment is the F18. The F17 hull is still the old shape. Maybe while updating it they will change it into a 16 footer?
On the other hand I don't know how big the (inter) F17 class is. Maybe it's a stupid idea that Nacra would take the F17 out of production.

Anyway, I've been sailing my Blade with my girlfriend now for 1 year on the Northsea and I'm pretty convinced the platform is as solid as any other out there.

Regards,
Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
Re: Straight question to Macca [Re: macca] #131512
02/15/08 04:14 AM
02/15/08 04:14 AM
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waynemarlow Offline OP
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Macca it is not a personal attack, I suspect that you have been tasked with assesing F16 as a possible path and one of the criteria is the rules need to be tightened and the weights need to be more realistic for volume production by your employer.

Be honest, you have used lots of I can say anything because it an Internet Forum without recourse so in return I will ask a direct question, are you presently employed by Nacra.

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