"F16 the best of both worlds" - Robi

"Race the wind" - Tikipete

This will be used on the t shirts I am currently working on.

I guess for the back of the shirt I was thinking of something a little more fun and eye-catching, to sailors and non-sailors alike, like:

F-16
The enLIGHTened Catamaran
No fat, no sugar, no calories
Fast, fun, addictive…and HEALTHY

OR

F-16
BEWARE: This cat may be addictive

This will be the class slogan, not only used for the T shirts.

"Race the Wind" sounds really nice, but boring.

"Best of both worlds" is perfect in the context of the class talking about how the F16 compares to other cats and when people know what it means (one-up or two-up on the boat). But out of context on a T-shirt, who would know what "both worlds" means? Probably only class members.

Okay, I have definitely run out of my two cents worth. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Need more input from more people.

Right, but it still needs to be INTERESTING and EYECATCHING.

Like Hog's Breath Beer has that slogan, "Hog's Breath is better than no breath at all."

If you have a slogan like, "BEWARE: This cat can be addictive," you can actually have a whole series of "ads" on different shirts based upon that slogan. And they won't really have anything to do with sailing.

Could be a great ad campaign for the boat.

How bout.........F-16 Have it your way. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

"F16, Fun and Function"

I always envisioned the next slogan for a Blade F16 promo-add.



You've been challenged; Choose your wapon ! (On front)

Blade F16 ! (on back)

Wouter

But should there be shirts just promoting the Blade?

How about....
F16...
Yeah, it IS better than your boat!

or...

F16...
My other wife <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Race the Wind" is about Horses <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, and I see it is also the name of a sailing board game and the name of an organization dedicated to finding adoptive homes for greyhounds, and also the name of a made-for-TV movie about a blind man.

Obviously, others thought it was a great phrase, too. Guess we will have to come up with something more original -- something that can be unique to the F16.

Still trying to think of a serious suggestion, but in the process the following crossed my slightly twisted mind -

F16 - not an ISAF-approved class.

Just kidding - I'm sure there are a variety of views on that issue. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How about:
F16...
Bob Curry loves them, so should you!

EDIT:
forgot that there are moderators now.... I will think of this as a test... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Formula 16 - "Looks aren't Everything"

The cats in the class are good looking - so that should get people talking.

"Formula 16, by sailors for sailors"

Rationale: Rules was designed by sailors, describing what they wanted themselves. Boats are buildt by sailors, and they are a sailors dream..

Do we need a slogan. People will only take the <urine>

F-16
Formula for Fun

Second! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How about:

"F-16: So bad... we require moderation."

LOL, again no where any time soon!

F16 - Flexibility First, Furiously Fast, Fantastically Fun, Feather Light <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

fonesix

The class with no class

When in doubt pull three sails out.

He's got two, they have three.

On tap, in a bottle or around the cans.

Sometimes I wish I could slow down.

F16, more fun than that one night you can't remember.

If you catch up you can see the front of the shirt.

Batteries not required.

It's really not your fathers Oldsmobile.

SACACACAF, wait we went too far.

You know you want one! Hell, with no winter hobbies, you coulda built one by now.

As long as this fricken winter has been I could've wished one into existance.

*********************
.........F16.........
The Sailor's Class
.........and.........
Class for the Sailor.
*********************

Say what i've always said
''Don't fear the speed~~~Fear the addiction''

F16, Don't try one if you not prepare to want one !


F16 = Pocket Rocket !


T-shirt :

Front : F16 1-up, are YOU man enough ?

Back : F16 2-up, it takes two to Tango !



F16 cats, remember that !


1 Sailor, 2 Sails, 3 times the glory; F16 1-up !


Mano a Vento, F16 !


Wouter

I second this proposal !

OK so are we going to get a consensus on which one we want?

Comes Tuesday the latest; I will place whichever one I like them most from this list on the T shirt. Then the class can decide if we will ever decide on an official slogan.

I like that too.

Yes I like it.

(BTW, no need to capitalize the second "f")

One lump, or two?

''Dont fear the speed~~fear the addiction'' I said that on my first Hobie 16 ride. I gotta 14 cat for starters. Good cat to learn on, but had to upgrade the following year. Had a 16 for some time~~~Opps, it happened again. Got a 17 Hobie off of e-bay for $511.00, road trip to Indiana(thats my avatar).. and 3 yrs after that gotta 18Hobie mag. I also had a MX-Ray skiff~~fast little thing, but sold it. too many toys....My girlfriend has a 14T. So really what I'm gettin at, ''Dont fear the speed thingyyy'' would apply to any fast skiff or CAT. If ya guys do use it, give me some credit for it please. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I've been sailin for 25+ yrs..Mono slug~~~ 21' Pearson down to fast cats and enjoy everybit of it.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Gots a nice long lake as my playground~~Oneida lake~~25mi. long/6mi. wide in upstate NY.........If ya wanna play, contact me!!!

I can't get no satisfaction (crossed out)

I don't need no crew.

Who needs a slogan?

Yeh! No concensus, no slogan.

If you guys insist on a slogan, I kinda like this one: "Winning from the beginning".
Inspired by these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu_-mISnk3w

Do you guys really want the T-shirt to be about racing?

T-shirts are a marketing tool to help sell boats; right? So do you want to turn off all the people who have no interest in racing and just want a boat for fun, recreational sailing? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

First you sell the boat and second you sell the class and third you sell the racing aspect. Think about what non-sailors are going to see when you wear that shirt while you are shopping at Home Depot.

Stop preaching to the choir and trying to convert existing sailors. What we need is NEW sailors and MORE sailors. If some non-sailor is thinking about getting a sailboat, you want them to see that shirt and think, "THAT's the boat I want." And you want the text to be something that will stick in their mind.

And you ought to have the class web site address on there somewhere. Think in terms of marketing. Dealers don't do it any more, so it is up to boat owners to do whatever they can to promote their own classes.

Don't pass up this opportunity that you have with the T-shirts.

I kind of agree with Mary.. would be nice not to have be a specific reference to racing.

How about my favorite slogan...
F16... because life is too short for monohuls!

Again, nonsailors have no idea what "monohull" means. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Or what "multihull" means, for that matter.

Mary,

That is actually one reason why I like :"Don't fear the speed~~~Fear the addiction", so much.

It is neutral towards recreational sailing and racing. It also highlights the performance part of the F16 class in a new non-demanding manner, by putting it in second place. The first place being the enjoyment of sailing the F16's of course (= the addiction). I think this is exactly how most F16 sailors feel and see the F16 class.

Wouter

It sounds great to me. Because it really is addicting!!!!

I wouldn't think these boats are for pure beginners though!

"Don't fear the speed- fear the addiction."

Is a very good logo.

I would be surprised if anyone can come up with a logo
that would fire up my imagination more. As far as I'm
concerned that is what the logo is supposed to do.

Grab peoples attention with an air of excitement.

If it does not mean anything and even if it makes no sense does not matter as long as it has fired up the right emotion.

Having said that my mind is not as closed on the subject as my post may infer, if someone can come up with something better. But to be affective it has to fire people up.

"GO F16URE".

Well, Wouter might like it.

--Glenn

Why not achieve a similar sentiment with a simpler structure that does not require a negative contraction: "speed is addictive" or "addicted to speed." This will also make the amphetamine reference even more obvious, further enhancing the bad-butt image we are creating here.

A favorite saying in the aviation world is:

"Airspeed is Life" But if you put that on a T shirt along with "F16", someone might mistake you for a fighter pilot.

I totally agree. I LOVE that slogan, and I was hoping somebody else would say something. And you DID. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Now the question is whether it has been used elsewhere. Is that original or plagiarized? If Popeyz is the person who came up with that phrase, he needs to get credit for it somehow and he also needs to officially give permission to the class to use that slogan.

It's sort of like when a graphic artist donates his or her time and talent to create a logo for a class.

If Popeyz is the originator, should he copyright it? Or, if he gives it to the F16 class, should the class copyright it?

Just questions that occur to me, because it is too good (and too generic) to not be used by other interests.

Seems like several people really like it (I do). Noone seems to be against it. I haven't seen any other proposals get traction. Any reason not to go with popeyez7's, as long as he gives the go ahead and confirms it's original?

Maybe for a one off shirt but it sounds a tad pretentious to me, <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> do we really need a “class slogan"? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I think this one might already belong to Jenny Craig but how about,

"Lose Weight Now, Ask me how" on the front and

"Race F16!" on the back, above the picture Robi had posted.

OR... "I want it ALL and I want it NOW!" on the front, and "Race F16" on the back. Reference to the ability to race both Uni and Two up.

So don't call it a slogan. Right now Robi just needs something to put on the back of this limited edition shirt.

It would be nice, though, to have some short phrase that sort of identifies the class and sets it apart from all the other "F" classes. Cripe, we have the F-12, the F-14, the F-16, the F-17, the F-18, the F-20, the F-24, F-27, F-28, F-31....we are lost in the "F"orest. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Dont forget that the F28 is/was a formula class in its own in Europe, as apart from the Farrier designs F24, F27, F28, F31, F36, F41 etc. Formula 20 is dead for the time being..


"Dont fear the speed, fear the addiction"!

Googling the phrase dont show any hits. I think we found gold <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have always thought that it is a mistake marketingwise to name a class of boats with an "F" and a number. It sounds so cold and sterile, like something that a computer came up with (even if that is true).

People who love boats want to think of them more like a member of the family. F-16 just doesn't sound very "friendly." What is it I am trying to say? I can't figure out how to express it.

You basically think the name of the formula classes aren't very "sellable" to the general public?

Definitely!

"Dont fear the speed, fear the addiction"!

I think we should drop the whole idea, it has gotten silly.

The general public will think we are delusional.

Why would you fear a boat?

Sailboats are not fast. Jets are fast, rockets are faster.

Well, Pete, I think we are talking about appealing to men here. Obviously, this concept of speed and addiction would not appeal to most women -- especially wives.

That's why my personal favorite (being a woman and a wife and a mother and a grandmother) is "Formula for Fun" because I think that would sell best with the wife and and family. But I realize that doesn't go over well with all you macho guys.

If you want to sell the boat to the public, the ultimate would be to have a cartoon caricature of a catamaran that makes it look cute and fun instead of fast and furious.

"Formula for fun". I'd prefer that over anything touting speed. After all, most of the time spent sailing is at speeds less than 20 mph. Any bicycle will do that.

Rolf et. al

I have a question regarding this comment.

Note this is my personal obsevation, but in Europe people seem to be very accepting of the idea of the box rule or Formula class as it pertains to racing. The A class and F18 both thrive and the ideas of design obsolecense etc do not seem to be a factor.

Contrary to this, in the US, the idea of a true formula concept is a tough sell. The A class is just starting to get enough participation to move it away from its "cult" status. The F18 class had a huge push a couple years ago when a few people put in the effort to really promote some events. Quite a few people jumped boats and seemed to be consolidating to the F18 class. It may be just coincidence but it seemed like the moment NACRA introduced the Infusion all the F18's in our area anyway went up for sale. I heard many complaints of "not being able to compete now against the new platform" and "not wanting to be in an arms race class". The F18 (in FL anyway, maybe not nationwide) went from being the next great thing to not having enough boats for a class at almost all of last years events.

IN any open / developmental type class the design life of a model is going to be about 3 to maybe 5 years. Most changes will likely be solely cosmetic, but the buyers expect something new when moving to a new boat now. New lines and a new set of sails and a boat is realisticaly cometitive for many years. The serious racers and the technoweinies usually buy sooner and new helps this along with now having a good supply of decent used boats.

From a class marketing standpoint, getting across and selling the formula concept is something we might need to spend some time considering.

Wow from class slogan, to normal and not cool, to marketing to selling boats!

ahhahahaha

Sorry folks, but "normal" "easy to read" "fun" "family" oriented has been out since 1990. This is 2008 and the hardcore badass you will get hurt and lose a rib is totally IN and hip with the younger crowd.

We need to get away from the "traditional" bs that some of you are stuck on.

In most northern parts of the country, it would be speeds under 10 mph for most of the summer, and probably the same in Florida. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But for a lot of people that does not have anything to do with the fun of just being out on the water, sailing (and paddling). <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I LOVE it.

Yes!

"This is 2008 and the hardcore badass you will get hurt and lose a rib is totally IN and hip with the younger crowd."

That lets me out! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> And,uh, how old are you now? Old enough to remember when the young hip crowd said, "don't trust anybody over thirty"?

I just tunred 31 a few days ago. A lot younger than a lot of you around here. Ive been working on designing artwork and graphics for three years now. When my work is put down by a bunch of people who have no idea about design work, I get upset and wont take any criticism by them seriously enough to even consider the suggestions they offer.

Plus at least im trying to do something unlike others.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I should add (on behalf of us boring old people) that one of the big reasons why existing sailors are interested in the A-Class and the F-16 is because the sailors are getting older and they need lighter boats that are easier to move around and easier to raise the mast. Plus their wives or kids are no longer crewing for them, so they have to be able to do things by themselves that they used to have a partner to help them with.

So it is probably not nice to knock the "old" people who are looking at the F16 as their next boat, nor to imply that this is a boat for kick-butt young people, which would intimidate the older people who don't really want to break a rib. And, of course, the "younger crowd" who want to break a rib probably can't afford the boat anyway.

They're probably sailing kites.

Anybody wanna guess the average age of catamaran sailors? I'm thinking 50 something.

Mary no one was knocking the old foggies around here. I said what I said because seems like I am getting criticized by you; with ideas that just do not make any sense in todays graphics design world.

The entire NORMAL, people that are NOT in the class this or that. People who dont race blah blah blah. The entire class slogan or t shirt design is for PEOPLE who are actually in the class and actually race the F16. All those folks know and understand the excitement there is when sailing these boats on the edge of losing it.

You think that I will not push my limits because I want things to be normal on the boat? Or because I dont want to get hurt? Or because I dont want to break the boat? GIVE ME A BREAK! I will push the boat until I get hurt, until something breaks, thats half the fun of it all! If it were up to me, I would have as a slogan "If you feel in control you are sailing to slow!"

But hey thats me I guess im too young for you to understand that.

That's probably close. Problem is that when they get close to 50, they start dropping out. And that's where the F16 comes in. It can extend their sailing years because of the light weight. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry; I did not know I was criticizing YOU. I thought I was just offering suggestions to the class in general about general things to do with marketing. Apparently, you do not like my old-fashioned ideas, and that's fine. I'm just an old foggie, whatever that is. I think you meant fogie, but I definitely am a little foggie a lot of the time, too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Robi, the thing is, the F16's right now are few and far between, scattered across the continent. When you put on one of those T-shirts, YOU can't see the back of it unless you look over your shoulder in the mirror. And chances are that no other F16 sailors are going to see it, either, unless you have a fleet somewhere -- and those sailors already ARE excited about the boat.

The whole idea is to get OTHER people interested in: Number one, Sailing; Number two, sailing a catamaran; and Number three, sailing an F16 catamaran. Like I said, you are trying to attract the other people who are in line behind you when you are checking out at Home Depot -- and that's probably mostly not the "younger crowd."

I always think of my T-shirts as billboards. Every time I wear one of my "Hog's Breath Beer" regatta T-shirts, I am very conscious that I am advertising that product.

Of course, if you hang out a lot in places where young people hang out, maybe you should have one kind of message on your shirt, and if you are hanging out where older people hang out, a shirt with a different message. Know what I mean?

Mary, I was under the impression that these were not going to be cotton, wear them to the Home Depot type shirts, but rather the rash guard type shirt that would only be worn while sailing, unless you like to wear that stretchy nylon rash guard type stuff to Home Depot, I'll pass...

Sorry, I guess I missed that. I thought you were talking about T-shirts.

Interesting comment about F18 Matt. How real do you think the performance advantage of the Infusion is? The Capricorn and Tiger were competitive before the Infusion arrived and as far as I can tell they are still considered to be after the Infusion release. That suggests that any performance improvement of the Infusion is relatively small. Could it be that people who bought new boats pre-Infusion just didn't like feeling that they had now the previous generation boat even if the difference on the race-course is relatively small compared with the effect of sailor skill and natural wear and tear etc?

It's not how long your hulls are...

It's how you use them!!!

And for the older crowd...

Throw away the Viagra and sail a F16

In one of the shirt threads, Robi says these will be COTTON T-shirts. Maybe you should double-check, so you will know what you are getting.

Mary, you are correct, Robi has told me the price is for Cotton T-shrits, I guess I missed the transition, because the last thing I remember was people said they didn't like cotton T-shirts for sailing and would prefer a rash guard type shirt. Mox-Nix, I've got plenty of both.

I think flatlander hit on the head!

the sensible alternative that can't be ignored. Or, F16 the sensilbe alternative

What'd I win?!?! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A free ride on a F16 of course! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"Free", as in your are going to spend lots of money afterwards getting one <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've felt for a long time that the F18s are a prime source of converts. Don't you think a lot of those guys have to be thinking this already?

F16, the sensilbe alternative

Imagine JW Uni in 5 knots! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

That just validates the "Fear the Addiction" slogan! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Or maybe, "The Convertible Cat"

F16 - Out of the closet and loving it!

I agree and the PC slogans need to be tossed out.

F16, the sensilbe alternative ... This makes me queezy.

We need something a little less "sensible"

It sounds a little like a drug ad.

Got Speed?

Get an F16!

Or maybe not so trite.

Need speed?

Sail a F16!

"Lightening Fast"

Think about it.

--Glenn

Greetings Lightweights, <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



[color:"red"]______THE TOOL______
Formula 16 Catamaran
______THE RULE______ [/color]

____formula16.org___
----------------------------------------------

_____________Formula 16_____________
(Picture of single hander righting a capsize)
______________Up Yours!_____________
------------------------------------------------
by the way, there is an IMAX movie named Race The Wind.

GARY