guys... don't know why you took the bait. I posted immediately after he posted so hopefully people wouldn't see that he had posted.
gotta ignore him or he'll never stop posting stupid [censored]. I would love it if one of the moderators would delete stuff like that.

now, if he ever says anything helpfull then sure it would be great.

Any thought of you guys going to Carnac? The more we can get on the water there the better. I checked google maps and it looks like a nine hour drive from Geneva.

EVERY F16 owner? How do you know that?

The wierd thing with the FX-Extreme is that there are parts for it in the new parts guide. But the FX-Extreme parts are not OD legal. It's just odd.

Thats beause it is supported by Hobie Europe... They see a future in selling boats that meet 104.

Yea Wouter, how do you know that considering there are loads of F16 Sailors who don't even bother getting involved in this forum!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Because he is the class spokesman <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Not sure I would want to be following Hobie Europes lead if the FX1 has got anything to go by, great two man mini F18, poor single hander, Hobie Europe just got things wrong and is now trying to fit a design into a new market ( rather than fitting an intended market ) to try and recover some of their design outlay.

Anyway why all the discussion, we have now probably around 200 F16 boats out there actively sailing, why upset those owners by changing things at this stage, I for one would be setting up a F16 lightweight class if ever there was a change to a heavier detuned version, as the boats as they are, are just toooooooo much fun. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

More Welsh humour, Mark ?

Wouter

None have submitted a proposal with the GC for fundamental rule changes yet, so it might be safe to say that all are happy?

Wayne, if by some magic the min weight was raised, the rest of the class would stampede after you. But the min weight is not going to be raised, so the topic is mute.

I dont think this guy would spend the winter in my garage aiming for min weight if he was not certain the weight would stay where it is.



What I dont get is why people are so fascinated by the question, letting macca goad them on in a discussion not going anywhere. I can only imagine the reactions to the same agenda on the Mosquito forum, the F18, Tornado, A-class, Taipan or just about any other class. It would be utterly ridicilous, but here.. I dont get it.

"What I dont get is why people are so fascinated by the question, letting macca goad them on in a discussion not going anywhere"

Easy one to answer that question, haven't counted but I would guess that the majority of participants on this site don't actually own or have sailed a F16 boat ( and I think Macca fits into that slot ).

I think you are right there Wayne.

Boys, I hate to tell you but I was one of the first <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had a 14ft skiff and F20 kite on m Taipan 4.9 in 1995...

been there done that.

Still got the boat?

nope, now the only boat i own is the Super Taipan, and that is a heavy underpowerd shitter <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Rolf, Just because I haven't submitted a new taxation proposal to my government doesn't mean i'm happy with the situation <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />





Aside from the fact that I didn’t start this discussion I think there are a few points that need to be made:-

I agree that a lighter boat is a better boat to sail, but that does not make it a better class or even a better race boat.

Take F18 for example, the boats are heavy for their size, but that has no impact on the quality of the racing or any real impact on the joy of sailing the boat. I get the same buzz from sailing the F18 as I do sailing the Super Taipan.

Now have a look at two yacht classes:-

Farr 40 and Sydney 38. The F40 is a lighter, more powerful and a lot faster than the S38. But the racing in the Sydney 38 class is better imho. The boats are closer in speed due to the lower power/weight ratio so the racing is closer and rewards better tactics rather than who gets one extra wave. In Europe you have the X35 class with huge fleets and close racing, The boat is simple to build, cheap and easy to sail. But the racing is great..

F16 was conceived with the Taipan as the baseline of the class. The Taipan hullshape was not designed with F16 sail configuration in mind and as such it is not optimised for carrying a spi, this has been confirmed by the designer of the boat. The platform weight on a taipan is low because of the low surface area/volume in the hulls and sub standard beams for F16. Newer designs have taken the needs of spi sailing into account and as such the hull volume has increased. You can’t increase hull volume/surface area without either:-

a) increasing weight
b) reducing layup to maintain weight (less strength, not a good idea with increased loads from a spi)
c) use more exotic materials to maintain weight (increase costs)

So the evolution of the hull shapes has meant that its now very hard to build a boat to min weight. The Blade is larger than the Taipan but I think the fastest hull shapes across a broad range of conditions (particularly 2 handed) will end up more like the Viper which is larger again.

So now you have a choice:-

a) have a boat on min weight that has a sub optimal hull shape
b)have an optimal hull shape that's overweight
c) have an optimal hull shape that's on weight but costs a lot to build due to the need for exotics

So to build a F16 with the new larger volume hulls and have it on weight you are talking about building a boat close to the standard of an A class.

Herein lies the problem for F16… If a builder were to build a boat with the new larger volume hull shape and did that to minimum weight you would have to resort to exotics in the hulls (possibly beams) and for sure mast. So based on the current costs of an A class (around 21k Euro) I think a F16 would be around that price.

Note: The savings you make on the F16 by possibly not using carbon beams etc are more than taken up by the expense of:-

Jib
Self tacker
Spi and pole etc
Extra rigging etc

Hands up who wants to pay 21k Euro (33k USD these days <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) for a F16 built with the new hull shape and to the current rules?

Now before you all come down on me for being nasty, let me say this:-

I like the boats, the class is a good idea. But I can see that its growth will be hindered by the above issues and attacking me for expressing a valid point of view only takes away from the positives that the class currently has and reduces the opportunity for the class to reach is ultimate potential.

Maybe I missed something, but aren't the VWM blades F16 an F16 built to F16 specs? and they don't cost 33k or 21k for that mater

just qualified my statement, by editing my post.

Hi all just because no proposal has been submitted as yet does not mean it's not going to happen. These things take time to formulate and get right.Then everyone will have the opportunity to vote for or against.
One further question who do these proposal need to be sent to?

[/quote]
Maybe I missed something, but aren't the VWM blades F16 an F16 built to F16 specs? and they don't cost 33k or 21k for that mater [/quote]

You should put your boat on a set of scales then let all of us no what it weighs then we will see if it's built to specs.