Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Why The Flip #134045
02/29/08 01:02 PM
02/29/08 01:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline OP
member
Bajan_Bum  Offline OP
member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Ok, I'm trying to figure out what these guys did wrong to cause this cat to flip. It happens a minute into the video. Enlighten me.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnxKpAaZNLc

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Why The Flip [Re: Bajan_Bum] #134046
02/29/08 01:08 PM
02/29/08 01:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Newton's laws of physics. An object in motion tends to stay in motion until a new force acts upon it.

In other words the guy cut the tiller so hard that the boat changed direction but the momentum of their body mass made them go over the backside of the boat.

Re: Why The Flip [Re: ThunderMuffin] #134047
02/29/08 01:30 PM
02/29/08 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
That and neither one of them had their feet under the straps on the tramp. That's what they are there for.

OR, you can keep yourself hooked up to the trap wires as you sit on the tramp. At least then if you do get spit out the back, the boat will still be attached to you and not going off without you. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
Re: Why The Flip [Re: Timbo] #134048
02/29/08 01:38 PM
02/29/08 01:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
enthusiast
Don_Atchley  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Centrifugal Force.
The boat pivots on the dagger boards with such force that it just throws you off the boat if you don't hang on.


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: Why The Flip [Re: Don_Atchley] #134049
02/29/08 02:05 PM
02/29/08 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Santa Barbara CA
sbflyer Offline
member
sbflyer  Offline
member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Santa Barbara CA
Uhm, getting hit in the face by the main as it gybes over before you are ready doesn't help either...nor does sitting on the new leeward hull as it digs in from the boat turning too fast. And c'mon, trap out already...

Re: Why The Flip [Re: Bajan_Bum] #134050
02/29/08 02:15 PM
02/29/08 02:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
At 56 seconds, boat's hit with a puff and skipper starts driving deeper - looks like a bit of a port lift, too. As they start the gybe to starboard, they're already really deep, so the main and jib filled from starboard sooner than they expected, which put them instantly on the low side leaning back... then the crew clings to the spin sheet, 'chute backwinds hard, and over she goes. Two events there - team falls off the low side when they're through the gybe sooner than expected, and boat flips due to backwinded 'chute. Good thing, too - it could have sailed much further away before flipping. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Good breeze, flat water - looks like fuuuuuun! Work on those singing boards, though. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Why The Flip [Re: John Williams] #134051
02/29/08 02:45 PM
02/29/08 02:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline OP
member
Bajan_Bum  Offline OP
member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Thanks a million, guys! I see it now. It's funny once you understand what they did wrong. I've never seen both guys fall off a boat before it flipped.

Talking about gybing, I can understand why you'd do it in a race, but on a casual run, why would you want to gybe? Doesn't it put unnecessary stress on the stays? Growing up sailing Hobies, the owner would always tell me "don't gybe my boat."

Re: Why The Flip [Re: Bajan_Bum] #134052
02/29/08 02:58 PM
02/29/08 02:58 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 182
Coopersburg, PA
V
Vinny_M Offline
member
Vinny_M  Offline
member
V

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 182
Coopersburg, PA
Thats odd, I have a H14 friend who says that he never even bothers to tack because it is too much work, he just circles around and gybes every time instead. I guess with the jib on the 14 though it can be a bugger to get through the wind


~vinny~
Re: Why The Flip [Re: Bajan_Bum] #134053
02/29/08 03:16 PM
02/29/08 03:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Thanks a million, guys! I see it now. It's funny once you understand what they did wrong. I've never seen both guys fall off a boat before it flipped.

Talking about gybing, I can understand why you'd do it in a race, but on a casual run, why would you want to gybe? Doesn't it put unnecessary stress on the stays? Growing up sailing Hobies, the owner would always tell me "don't gybe my boat."


You gybe to get to where you want to go. Gybing in heavy air can be a bit tricky but it's not anything the boat shouldn't be able to handle. Gybing spinnaker boats is much easier because you are going much closer to windspeed (so when the sails transition sides, they do so much gentler if you keep your speed up).


Jake Kohl
Re: Why The Flip [Re: Jake] #134054
02/29/08 03:41 PM
02/29/08 03:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Santa Barbara CA
sbflyer Offline
member
sbflyer  Offline
member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Santa Barbara CA
Can't tack with a spinnaker(not gracefully anyhow), so even for just recreational sessions spin=gybe.

Re: Why The Flip [Re: Bajan_Bum] #134055
02/29/08 03:54 PM
02/29/08 03:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
veteran

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
What is the yellow catamaran at 2:53 and 2:55?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWINygISxDE&feature=related

Re: Why The Flip [Re: Bajan_Bum] #134056
02/29/08 04:27 PM
02/29/08 04:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
been there, done that too many times to not have sympathy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Gybing in high winds is the most difficult thing to do on these boats IMO

Re: Why The Flip [Re: bvining] #134057
02/29/08 04:43 PM
02/29/08 04:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 146
Crofton, MD
Todd Berget Offline
member
Todd Berget  Offline
member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 146
Crofton, MD
Hmmm.... not a whole lot to go off there.

My guess is a Hurricane 6.5 made by Loday/White. That's a pretty wild guess, based on that it looks wider than 8.5' and the rudder castings look like the old Reg white design.


Todd Nacra 20 www.wrcra.org
Re: Why The Flip [Re: Todd Berget] #134058
02/29/08 04:56 PM
02/29/08 04:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Quote
Hmmm.... not a whole lot to go off there.

My guess is a Hurricane 6.5 made by Loday/White. That's a pretty wild guess, based on that it looks wider than 8.5' and the rudder castings look like the old Reg white design.
The 6.5 was White Formula, not Loday/White.
Most photos of the 6.5 showed racks - but there were a few built - maybe some without. The rig was so powerful, I think that you needed to use the racks in any kind of wind.
Also I doubt that Reg built hulls that colour <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.
Another also the 6.5 had large fairings at the beams and a lot more hull behind the rear beam. And also the mainsail was low forward and had a short high boom at the aft section - it's easy when you are looking at a photo from the brochure <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Dermot; 02/29/08 05:14 PM.

Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Why The Flip [Re: Dermot] #134059
02/29/08 05:24 PM
02/29/08 05:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
The 6.5 was a monster - there was one still in the yard at the White's last time I was there.

Robert said himself it was a beast and would bite you if not careful.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Why The Flip [Re: bvining] #134060
02/29/08 05:27 PM
02/29/08 05:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline OP
member
Bajan_Bum  Offline OP
member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Quote
What is the yellow catamaran at 2:53 and 2:55?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWINygISxDE&feature=related

That's some awesome video. Didn't know those cats were that fast.

Re: Why The Flip [Re: Bajan_Bum] #134061
02/29/08 05:41 PM
02/29/08 05:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
veteran

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
SPINNAKER UP = DAGGERBOARDS UP


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Why The Flip [Re: TEAMVMG] #134062
02/29/08 05:54 PM
02/29/08 05:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Debate on boards up or down continues... I agree up, but I've seen winners who never touch 'em.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Why The Flip [Re: John Williams] #134063
02/29/08 06:20 PM
02/29/08 06:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Quote
Debate on boards up or down continues... I agree up, but I've seen winners who never touch 'em.

In the higher winds, on the Spitfire, on the edge downwind - up or down is the difference between pitchpole or not - you can feel the cat trying to trip over the boards, if they are down.


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Why The Flip [Re: Dermot] #134064
02/29/08 07:09 PM
02/29/08 07:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Dermot you're right, of course - in big air they have to come up. In the conditions in the vid, I think you can get away with leaving them down.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 473 guests, and 82 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1