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Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: brucat] #134917
03/07/08 11:37 AM
03/07/08 11:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
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brucat  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
We had a little hijack, I guess. Yes, I will continue to join USSA.

BTW, the Race Management training is one of the many benefits of belonging to USSA. The course I attended this past weekend was at the New York Yacht Club in Newport.

Yes, I was the only multihull sailor there. Yes, I let them know I am a Hobie sailor and PRO. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mike

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: John Williams] #134918
03/09/08 05:45 PM
03/09/08 05:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
John, the problem has always been that we do not have enough individual catamaran sailors joining US Sailing. We have a number of catamaran classes and organizations that belong, but for some reason US Sailing seems to take individual memberships more into consideration than the organizations.

Am I wrong about that? I know it has always been a problem that people who join as individuals do not get counted as being multihull sailors because of the way the membership form is. And not enough people use the Golden Anchor program through the Multihull Council.

But why would that negate the memberships of all the catamaran classes and organizations that belong?

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Tornado] #134919
03/09/08 10:15 PM
03/09/08 10:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
There is no stipulation on that poll for people who are current members as well...or rather, an option for people who aren't currently members but will join, and those who aren't current members but will not join within the next year. It assumes that everyone that votes is currently a member.


Jake Kohl
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Mary] #134920
03/09/08 11:35 PM
03/09/08 11:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
Hi Mary -

While you make a valid point about people joining, what I meant was that we don't have enough people volunteering to govern the sport. We need maybe six or eight people who are interested in volunteering, and we need the member clubs and classes that you mention to start sending reps to meetings. I know it is a tall order - local and regional level volunteers are already spending extravagant amounts of time building their fleet or club or class. Kinda hard to expect them to also go to the meetings of an organization that inspires polls about whether or not to pay dues.

Anyway... like it or not, USSA is the MNA. If we can't get enough enthusiasm to get the current racing classes represented within USSA, it is absurd to imagine that multihull sailors could somehow form a national-level breakaway organization that would take over the function of USSA. So polls like this one lead to... what?

Sorry - feeling a bit bleak tonight. Maybe its the flu.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: John Williams] #134921
03/10/08 12:04 AM
03/10/08 12:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
John,
Sorry I missed what the MNA is.
SO- we multihull sailors have to "unionize", then have to beg for representation by working/volunteering within USSA.
....And choke back the thoughts that USSA is not quite like a Stalinist organization viewing multihull sailors as "mentally-ill dissenters". Hmmm.


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: John Williams] #134922
03/10/08 03:46 AM
03/10/08 03:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
We need maybe six or eight people who are interested in volunteering, and we need the member clubs and classes that you mention to start sending reps to meetings. I know it is a tall order - local and regional level volunteers are already spending extravagant amounts of time building their fleet or club or class.

John, I would think it is mostly a matter of money. I know Rick and I cannot afford to go to those meetings all over the country. Bless you guys who are able to do it. We need you, and we all appreciate your hard work on behalf of multihulls. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Mary] #134923
03/10/08 06:19 AM
03/10/08 06:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
Buccaneer Offline
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Buccaneer  Offline
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Posts: 1,479
Thailand
NO, I’ve had enough of US sailing. They are worse then worthless as they are also a hindrance with their attempts to control the sport! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Jake] #134924
03/10/08 11:45 AM
03/10/08 11:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline OP
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Tornado  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
That's correct...what will existing members do when asked to renew this year? That was the the question I asked.


Quote
There is no stipulation on that poll for people who are current members as well...or rather, an option for people who aren't currently members but will join, and those who aren't current members but will not join within the next year. It assumes that everyone that votes is currently a member.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Tornado] #134925
03/11/08 12:46 AM
03/11/08 12:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
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Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
Current vote, yes 22 and no 41. Too bad. If you do not take part, how can you expect change? And where have the 63 members been? This far exceeds the active number of Multihull Sailors that have stepped forward to help.
Caleb Tarleton

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: H17cat] #134926
03/11/08 03:47 AM
03/11/08 03:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Step forward to help HOW? What is it specifically that you need help with? The words "help" and "volunteer" are so vague. I'm sure that if you tell us what needs to be done, you will get plenty of offers to do those specific jobs. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Mary] #134927
03/11/08 09:18 AM
03/11/08 09:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 118
Sail Sand Point, Seattle
mike220 Offline
member
mike220  Offline
member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 118
Sail Sand Point, Seattle
Any one in the Pacific Northwest want to "Help" or "Volunteer" with the Pothole Warm Up at Potholes reservoir. The first of our Youth Series, the kids will be out sailing Waves April 4-6.

Its just a warm up sail so there will not be any racing exaxtly, just kids out on the boats having fun.

We need beach captains to help them on and off the beach and safety boat drivers.

Show up spend half of the day volunteering and have fun. It doesn't require your whole weekend.

Thanks
If you are interested email me at
mikehensel220(at)msn(dot)com


Mike Hensel
Hobie Tiger
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Mary] #134928
03/11/08 10:24 AM
03/11/08 10:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Quote
Step forward to help HOW? What is it specifically that you need help with? The words "help" and "volunteer" are so vague. I'm sure that if you tell us what needs to be done, you will get plenty of offers to do those specific jobs. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


OK, here's a way:

There will be three open positions on the One-Design Class Council Executive Committee this fall. Any one design class (including catamarans) is part of the ODCC, therefore they are eligible to sit at the table and be a part of the ODCC.

As of today, the following catamaran classes belong to US Sailing:

A Class
Corsair 28
F-16
F-18
Hobie 16
Hobie 17
Hobie 20
Hobie Tiger
Isotope
Mystere 4.3
NACRA
Reynolds 33
Shark
SL 16
Tornado
Wave

I represent the Hobie Classes on the ODCC - the rest are fair game. If you want to help, contact the ODCC Nominating Committee:

Tom Hubbell - hubbellthomas@ussailing.net
Patty Lawrence - p.lawrence@fuse.net
James Appel - JamesAppel2010@comcast.net

BTW, I sent all the contacts for the classes listed above an e-mail yesterday, requesting they give me their proxy for the meeting. Thus far, I have not received even one response. How can we effect change if we don't participate in the process?

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: mbounds] #134929
03/11/08 10:33 AM
03/11/08 10:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
We did not get an e-mail from you for the Wave Class.

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Mary] #134930
03/11/08 10:38 AM
03/11/08 10:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
addict
windswept  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
I will continue with my USSA membership for the simple reason of supporting the MHC mission.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Mary] #134931
03/11/08 01:20 PM
03/11/08 01:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Quote
We did not get an e-mail from you for the Wave Class.


Check your PM's

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: mbounds] #134932
03/11/08 03:22 PM
03/11/08 03:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
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wildtsail  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
Okay if no one else is going to ask this then I am going to.... why is a guy from Thailand saying he is not going to renew his UNITED STATES sailing association membership? US Sailing is the national governing body for sailing in the US!
Okay, maybe membership is open to those from other countries, but I think in terms of this poll, there is an incredible bias coming from other parts of the world. If he's not a member, he's putting negative propaganda into the minds who are reading this thread and voting.
That'd be like someone from Iraq telling us that the war in Iraq is wrong! Slightly different perspective.
Those who are encouraging us to step up and volunteer have the right idea! US Sailing has everything in place needed to encourage sailing, whether it be keelboats, multihulls, or etc. People like John Williams are exactly what we need, they are capitalizing on the opportunities presented by the organization. There are no other viable organizations out there with the type of resources that US Sailing provides us and the rest of the sailing community. Turning our back on the organization would be turning our back to those resources. I'd like to see some other organization come up with similar resources, it would take a tremendous effort and in my eyes would not be possible. I am not trying to start a debate, simply state my opinion which is in order to get what we want out of this organization we have to support it! If they do us wrong, we have to step up as we have and let them know! We can't always get what we want but that's life, that doesn't give you a right to give up.

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: wildtsail] #134933
03/11/08 04:59 PM
03/11/08 04:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline OP
veteran
Tornado  Offline OP
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Dude, take a pill!

You have no idea about the guy's details...he may be a US citizen living/stationed out side the US...yes, this does happen!

Propaganda?!?! Geez, what's wrong with raising issues to be discussed? Just 'cuz you don't like his stance doesn't make it propaganda.

I'm not a US citizen, but I am a member of US Sailing...wrap your head around that one if you can.

Can't see how an Iraqi telling the US that the invasion of their country was wrong has any bearing this discussion.





Quote
Okay if no one else is going to ask this then I am going to.... why is a guy from Thailand saying he is not going to renew his UNITED STATES sailing association membership? US Sailing is the national governing body for sailing in the US!
Okay, maybe membership is open to those from other countries, but I think in terms of this poll, there is an incredible bias coming from other parts of the world. If he's not a member, he's putting negative propaganda into the minds who are reading this thread and voting.
That'd be like someone from Iraq telling us that the war in Iraq is wrong! Slightly different perspective.
Those who are encouraging us to step up and volunteer have the right idea! US Sailing has everything in place needed to encourage sailing, whether it be keelboats, multihulls, or etc. People like John Williams are exactly what we need, they are capitalizing on the opportunities presented by the organization. There are no other viable organizations out there with the type of resources that US Sailing provides us and the rest of the sailing community. Turning our back on the organization would be turning our back to those resources. I'd like to see some other organization come up with similar resources, it would take a tremendous effort and in my eyes would not be possible. I am not trying to start a debate, simply state my opinion which is in order to get what we want out of this organization we have to support it! If they do us wrong, we have to step up as we have and let them know! We can't always get what we want but that's life, that doesn't give you a right to give up.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: Tornado] #134934
03/12/08 12:10 AM
03/12/08 12:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
old hand
wildtsail  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
I think you took my post a little out of context.
I was trying to make a point that negative statements or positive statements for that matter should not be associated with any poll of this sort.
For one, by polling people outside the true sample you are creating an allowance for a large sample error.
Also, the bias created by people who are not truly part of the polling sample will create more of a margin for error. That was my point with the Iraq statement... it was a comparison with no direct bearing on this discussion.

Okay.. maybe my point was out of place as this is an opinion poll and thread, anyone has the right to speak up... However, I feel like there has been plenty of discussion on this subject in other threads and to discuss it in association with a poll may be affecting the results.

I did intend to create any ill will and I apologize if you took it that way.
I chose to bring up an issue to discuss just as everyone else in this thread, I did not realize the manner in which I was bringing it up would cause such a response.

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: wildtsail] #134935
03/12/08 09:14 AM
03/12/08 09:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
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T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
anyone that is seriously trying to analyze the "sample error" of a poll on the internet needs to understand how easily these things are manipulated.

Especially with this forum software, its a simple matter of writing a 5 line script to vote 10, 100, 1000 times.

Re: US Sailing Membership Renewal Poll [Re: wildtsail] #134936
03/12/08 11:58 AM
03/12/08 11:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline OP
veteran
Tornado  Offline OP
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
True, gathering arguements for/against the issue was not the intended purpose of this poll...but I'm OK with it.

Yes, this may affect the poll outcome to some extent...but that's OK too...if a person is sitting on the fence about the issue and reads (re-reads) the points made here, causing a shift one way or the other...that's great.

Yes, this poll is completely vunerable to sabotage...but it's just an informal measure. We're not going to change the world with it.


Quote
I think you took my post a little out of context.
I was trying to make a point that negative statements or positive statements for that matter should not be associated with any poll of this sort.
For one, by polling people outside the true sample you are creating an allowance for a large sample error.
Also, the bias created by people who are not truly part of the polling sample will create more of a margin for error. That was my point with the Iraq statement... it was a comparison with no direct bearing on this discussion.

Okay.. maybe my point was out of place as this is an opinion poll and thread, anyone has the right to speak up... However, I feel like there has been plenty of discussion on this subject in other threads and to discuss it in association with a poll may be affecting the results.

I did intend to create any ill will and I apologize if you took it that way.
I chose to bring up an issue to discuss just as everyone else in this thread, I did not realize the manner in which I was bringing it up would cause such a response.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
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