| Am I dreaming? #138425 03/31/08 11:14 AM 03/31/08 11:14 AM | Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered | Or did a whole thread just get zapped? | | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: PTP]
#138427 03/31/08 11:35 AM 03/31/08 11:35 AM | Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered | Well maybe, but it's not the only way to deal with it. It has been fascinating to watch some individual's M.O.'s. | | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: scooby_simon]
#138431 03/31/08 07:55 PM 03/31/08 07:55 PM |
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,479 Thailand Buccaneer
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479 Thailand | Yes it seems like they really don't want to talk boat weight after all. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Something about "people living in glass houses" and they threw in the towel directly. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
| | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: scooby_simon]
#138432 04/01/08 12:11 AM 04/01/08 12:11 AM |
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 502 Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia Darryn
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addict
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502 Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia | It was removed as it was not serving any purpose. It revealed to me a few F16 issues. 1, F16 is not yet a viable alternative to A class or F18 if you are a professional sailor or want to race against professional sailors at that level and it will be some time before it gets there, 10 years maybe. 2, F16, with maybe 150 boats doesn't justfy the hype that surrounds it. 3, The F16 weight thread wasn't effectively dealt with by your class management. Who asked what ratherbsailings Taipan actually weighed? The answer is worth the research. Darryn Mozzy 1782 | | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: Darryn]
#138433 04/01/08 12:40 AM 04/01/08 12:40 AM |
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 951 Brisbane, Queensland, Australi... ncik
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951 Brisbane, Queensland, Australi... | 1. How many professional sailors are there really? Why do we want to cater for professional sailors? Will professional sailors really come to the F16 if the weight is changed? I don't believe that many are even in the crew weight ballpark? I thought sailing was for everyone...not just the professionals.
2. The only "hype" that surrounds F16 is on the web. Web based hype should always be taken with a grain of salt, it is too easy for anyone with half a clue to publish, which in turn builds the hype. What you should be looking at is the printed media for a true indication of the level of hype there is around the boat...not much properly published articles are around yet.
3. It was asked of ratherbsailing very early on (first or second page)...my recollection is that it wasn't answered, although it may've been lost in all the personal attacks and OT responses. The reason for the lack of response is unclear, although I don't think ratherbsailing responded much to the topic through its troubled, short life...
I do agree though that the class management dropped the ball on that thread. Although when someone has an axe to grind, there's not a lot that can be done about it online, short of moderation or lawsuits... | | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: Tony_F18]
#138436 04/01/08 03:01 AM 04/01/08 03:01 AM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 201 Adelaide South Australia ratherbsailing
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201 Adelaide South Australia | The reason I did not answer was, I was contacted by persons within the F16 group not to continue with the thread as the class needed more stability(there words not mine) so I gave up and watched it all go to hell.Now hopefully this weekend the boat will go on a class set of scales and I will have an official measurement when this is done I will be happy to publish if this does not offend the moderators or any official with in the F16 group.As a boat owner I think I should have the rite to question rules or ask question regarding the future of the f16 class even if they step on toes. For me this has put a little doubt whether this was a good class choice. I would like to see the GC take charge and make some harsh but fair decisions.
Such as
1/ remove all but one of the moderators as these persons caused more trouble than they moderated.
2/ Get the much needed association's formed so the class can move forward with some of the pressing issues.
3/This forum should remain open to ALL even if some do not like what is posted.
I also would like to say by removing the F16 Weight thread this has only put it in the back round for a short while it will come back and it ain't over yet. | | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: Darryn]
#138438 04/01/08 04:35 AM 04/01/08 04:35 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia | 1, F16 is not yet a viable alternative to A class or F18 if you are a professional sailor or want to race against professional sailors at that level and it will be some time before it gets there, 10 years maybe.
Profesional was probably the wrong word to use. Perhaps sailors who are looking for serious competition. | | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: ncik]
#138439 04/01/08 04:40 AM 04/01/08 04:40 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia | I do agree though that the class management dropped the ball on that thread. Although when someone has an axe to grind, there's not a lot that can be done about it online, short of moderation or lawsuits... Perhaps some hard to argue facts and truths came out and it was thought best to hide the issue. Objecting to it here may see it discussed in open forums or on other sites where the moderators have less control and the audience is greater. | | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: ncik]
#138440 04/01/08 04:57 AM 04/01/08 04:57 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Okay,
Now I officially had it with the following guys !
Yes, that means Macca, TornadoAlive, TaipanFC, Mattaipan, Ratherbesailing, Buccaneer and now Darryn too.
It you guys are not happy with the F16 class as it is now and is developping then pack your bags and buzz off. You all had you say multiples times and now is time to put up or shut up ! The rest of the world simply does NOT agree with you and never will. Accept it.
And please don't start bitching about boat weights again. My homebuild boat weights 121.8 kg ever since the beginning of the class and it never has been an item on this forum and I was never prevented from making this public knowledge. Now that some homebuilder achieves the same weight or worse every other in the land is screaming that sky is falling. What a load of crap.
Several homebuilders have build lighter and even down to minimum weight, lets not forget that homebuild taipan were build down to 102 kg overall weight and adding a spi doesn't take 20 kg ! So if you don't achieve the class minimum then you only have yourself to blame; same would apply to myself if I had any desire to blame anybody.
You have all been told several times that we understand your arguments but don't agree with them. You have been told how to officially progress your rule change idea's but you all refuse to follow those paths like normal people. All you want to do is kick up dust on a public forum and repeate the same arguments over and over over again. If you had been serious then you would have send in a rule change proposal months ago, but none of you did.
Ergo, guys are only trying to wreck the F16 class, nothing more nothing less. I have absolutely no respect for dishonourable behaviour like that. In my eyes that is sufficient grounds to be reprimanded, deleted and finally be banned althogether. You guys are already a long way up that ladder !
That is called policing rather then censoring.
Now all you guys make a decision. Become F16 members and play by the rules like everybody else or simply buzz off.
Wouter
At the request of the poster I have edited this post.
Last edited by phill; 04/01/08 03:25 PM.
| | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: Wouter]
#138443 04/01/08 05:39 AM 04/01/08 05:39 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia | Now I officially had it with the following Aussies, what a bunch of winers are you guys !
Thanks for the complement, I am sure the other skipps appreciate being called winers..... However winners is spelt with two n’s mate. Anybody else noticing how they are all from one particular location on the globe ?
You mean the place that breads the worlds best cat sailors. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
It you guys are not happy with the F16 class as it is now and is developping then pack your bags and buzz off. You all had you say multiples times and now is time to put up or shut up ! The rest of the world simply does NOT agree with you and never will. Accept it.
The rest of the World or those F16 sailors on this forum. Might be a bit different if it is discussed in the open forums or other open forums where some other knowledgeable and non bias sailors (without blinkers) frequent. And please don't start bitching about boat weights again. My homebuild boat weights 121.8 kg ever since the beginning of the class and it never has been an item on this forum and I was never prevented from making this public knowledge. Now that some Aussie homebuilder achieves the same weight or worse every other Aussie in the land is screaming that sky is falling. What a load of crap.
I seem to remember Marcus voice his concerns about the weight too. I would love to hear his thoughts about the potential for rule exploitation in the class too. Several homebuilders have build lighter and even down to minimum weight, lets not forget that homebuild taipan were build down to 102 kg overall weight and adding a spi doesn't take 20 kg ! So if you don't achieve the class minimum then you only have yourself to blame; same would apply to myself if I had any desire to blame anybody.
You just don’t get that a Taipan was never designed for spinnaker loads. Extra weight comes through structural reinforcement, increased hull volume on top of the hardware. You have all been told several times that we understand your arguments but don't agree with them. You have been told how to officially progress your rule change idea's but you all refuse to follow those paths like normal people. All you want to do is kick up dust on a public forum and repeate the same arguments over and over over again. If you had been serious then you would have send in a rule change proposal months ago, but none of you did.
You don’t agree with them because we are wrong or it is detrimental to the F16 class. Why would I invest in a class so as to make rule changes that may not happen until it is too late. I am very serious about a 1 man / 2 man 16 footer and will be buying one. But doubt I will become part of the F16 class as it currently stands. Ergo, guys are only trying to wreck the F16 class, nothing more nothing less. I have absolutely no respect for dishonourable behaviour like that. In my eyes that is sufficient grounds to be reprimanded, deleted and finally be banned althogether. You guys are already a long way up that ladder !
Nothing more or nothing less...... Not even close Censorship will hardly solve the problem or stop the talk. | | | Re: Am I dreaming?
[Re: Wouter]
#138444 04/01/08 05:49 AM 04/01/08 05:49 AM |
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 461 Victoria, Oztralia mattaipan
addict
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addict
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 461 Victoria, Oztralia | I might be mistaken, but I don't believe I have tried to wreck the F16 class at all. I'd like to be shown where this has been the case, if it has.
I think your issues are more from a personal point of view, which is fine by me, the feeling is very much mutual.
If I am to be banned from the forum, I would like the moderators to contact me with the reasoning behind that decision, as I don't know how high the ladder is, or how high I have climbed.
Paragraph Deleted, as I may fall from top of said ladder, with my views on whom is causing the most damage to the F16 class.
Steve - Come join us in Taipan fleet, you'd be more than welcome.
Last edited by mattaipan; 04/01/08 06:06 AM.
Matt Harper
Homebuilt Taipan 4.9
AUS 329 'GOT WOOD' SEEDY PIRATES RACING TEAM
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