I think this is a topic worthy of its own thread.

Rick and I do not believe in censorship. The exceptions have been:

1. Pornography.
2. Blatant commercial advertising (other than our own, of course)
3. Persistent personal attacks on another sailor.

As a result of the recent controversies, I am wondering whether PERSISTENT attacks upon a specific class of boats would fall in the same kind of category as attacks on an individual sailor.

What do you guys think?

Naah, it makes for fun reading! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Additionally we have the "ignore user" function.... I wouldn't worry about it.

Here is my take;
1- Lets call it "Tastefull Art", but this is not an "artsy" site so it doesn't belong here.

2- Well its your site advertise what you want other than "see #1"

3- Incessant attacks on individuals should not be tolerated. Boats well thats another story, everyone has their opinion and it can be aired. Hopefully it has backing rather than just opinion or preference. The incessant attacks determination is tough one. If you look back one might determine that responses to Wouter's posts are incessant... (just an example <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />) but generally those attacks have some figures in them to rebuke statements. OTOH, if someone is going off continually on an individual on a PERSONAL basis then they should take it elsewhere.

Of course this is my opinion, your mileage may vary (Borrowed from some other illustrius sailor).

Clayton

I think we can all agree that there is a difference between a personal attack, light teasing, and arguing a point. I think you/us are adult enough to see these differences and address accordingly. An option to deleting a post would be to first ask the author to edit or delete their own post if it is felt that it is out of line. This gives the author a chance to either realize he/she is out of line, or to explain where they are coming from. Remeber it is sometimes hard to here the tone of voice through a computer.

There is a difference between arguing a point and a personal attack. Having been rather frustrated by the later of the two, I found the "ignore user" function very useful. The line between arguing and personal attacks is not that fuzzy. Personal attacks shouldn't be tolerated.

An attack against a class is an attack aginst many individuals. Also I am sure some people cannot distinguish between individual and class. So yes it falls in the same category.
In the moment it seems impossible to debate some topics without things going out of control. However I am not sure if censorship and banning can solve it. Those people could login with new user names...

Cheers,

Klaus

My fear has come true. Even on one of my favorite websites you are no longer allowed to say anything that might hurt someones feelings. The other day I was scorned when I told my son to sit indian style, apparently now it is criss cross applesauce or some crap like that because indian style is not politically correct. Based on this new theory we will have to delete the entire thread about global warming as I am sure we have offended people from both sides of that arguement. Heck even I called weather forcasters idiots....which they are but hey. It seems to me that the world has gotten overly sensative in the past years and needs to take a big chill pill. I am sure I have upset someone with the post so feel free to bash away, censor, or demote my star count as you see fit.

Thank You, please pull forward.

Personal attacks should be deleted as well as SPAM but that's about where my limit is.

You don't have to read or reply to posts you don't like and like Jake said you can put a forum user in the ignore bucket.

It just appears over the last few years this forum has become increasingly heavy handed in it's moderation.

Be careful about NOT censoring. If you don't you might offend those people are sitting around just waiting to be offended!

The question is about PERSONAL attacks. The thread about GW is/was not personal to one in particular, well at least not consistantly, and calling forcasters idiots (although I don't agree)lumps them all into a group. Its when you call me an idiot and don't have any substance to back it up <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. Thats when it gets personal. BTW, I'm not a forcaster of any sort.

So differnce being we can all disagree (and we do a lot) without getting personal with a person you don't even know.

JMO,

Peace all,
Clayton

I must be dense.
What class of boat is getting "persistent attacks"?
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I see certain members taking a beating often, mostly due to their strong opinions. But I don't notice any 1 class of boat taking it on the chin more than any other.

So, what's up?

THIS forum? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> When has there been any moderation on this forum? We have always left it up to the Users to resolve problems amongst themselves.

I was just hoping that this thread might give some ideas and guidance to the F16 Forum. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Boat class attack: If it´s part of the culture, what's the point in hiding it. Better allow the discussion activity to have it documented, so readers can make informed decisions, either about the issues under discussion or about their belonging to the cat sailing culture.

Personal attacks. I don't remember reading them, but if they are not in the context of sailing discussion, a good thing is to move them out to a separated cathegory (Offtopic, miscelaneous discussion, etc.) Telemarktips.com, for those who know it, has a specific section for that, they used to describe it as a section not present there for the interest of off topic discussion but to be able to separate it from the discussion around the subjetc. Now they changed that description I think, but I guess the idea is the same. But I've heard of forums where online aggressivity between members has moved to real life and the forum has been in involved in legal troubles, I don't have any detail, just heard about it, but its something to be aware of I think.

If this forum was moderated TikiPete would have been banned years ago. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gosh, I certainly hope that attacking someone else's class or brand of boat is not part of the "culture." <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
If that were the case, I know I wouldn't be part of the "cat sailing culture."

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Aww, shucks!

This one:

The best thing to do is to make everyone moderator, that way people can delete the posts they don't like and not be offended or whatever.
Total Anarchy!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

They could pull on their big boy pants! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I think it was a big mistake to limit debate (as if one really can do such a thing). Even worse to remove the debate/thread entirely!

I really thought the debate was useful They F16's have a box rule that differs from the F18 rule and the A class Rule, in part because of the market niche each is sitting in.

What happens as the rule plays forward for a class?
Does the law of unintended consequences show up?

The first debate... addressed... would having a large builder at the cost of a heavier class min actually benefit the class with respect to growth.


The second debate.. seemed to address the possible down side of a maxed out boat entering the class. (Sounded to me like a reprise of ... did the ventilo 20 kill the first formula 20 class by dominating and making the other boats obsolete. If yes... what rules would have prevented this.


The F16 guys should remember... We have listend to lots of debates ...
Should the hobie 16 class add a spinaker debate? the EU says yes... the USA says no... the kid's use a spinaker at the ISAF worlds in Kingston Ontario. Strong opinions all around. I learned something about classes and class leadership in listening to this one.

The F18HT class and the F18 class battled for acceptance in the USA and the EU. the proponents spoke loudly about what they thought was important...

So what is relevant to the F16 class today?... Why is this relevant... Well to me it is similar to the current situation where The Capricorn Viper F16 is heavier and more robust looking then the Blade F16. Will this be a decisive factor for the class growth? Will a buyer look at the two boats and choose in a way that undermines the current F16 class.

Opinions are just that. so OK Why would any one care... Well those of us who make races happen DO NOT WANT TO SEE MORE segmentation.

Personally, I am waiting for the SECOND hard wing A class sail to appear on the water and prove to be faster.... now THAT will upset the A class status quo.... and perhaps tear the class apart.

There are things to be learned about how classes and sailors sort through these kinds of issues.

After all... racing is all about agreement... If we don't agree... then we don't have a game....

For example... the AC fiasco points to what a mess develops with no agreement.