I hate reading rule books, it's like reading the Federal tax code!

Anyway, if anyone has the patience: 3 boats coming in to "C" mark (no gate) under spinnaker. 2 on starboard, 1 on port. The port boat would seems to be behind; except for the overlap thingey.

The question is: how far out can the overlap be established and what's the port/starboard implication.

Additionally, how much room does anyone owe a single handed spin sailor who is trying to do 3 things with 2 hands?

Inquiring minds wanna know. (Good opportunity to inject some humor here BK, Ding)

Overlap is established at the 2 boat length circle. FYI, it does not matter if the overlap is broken inside the circle... If the inside boat came into the circle with an overlap, then room to round in a seaman like way needs to be given regardless. Bouy room will overide Port / Starboard inside the 2 boat lenght circle.


"
Answer - Enough for him to make a bouy rounding as he would do without other boats around (Without f#$K ups)

At the speeds we travel though, I would be calling for room well before the 2 boat lenght circle. However it does not come into effect until the 2 boat lengths

Another rule many sailors are not aware off is that a boat coming upwind on Port must give way to a boat coming downwind on starboard.

I have had quiet a few close calls with boats both rounding the bottom mark on port when I am coming in hot on starbord with the kite up and boats coming into the top mark on port when we are coming around and setting the kite on starboard.

It amazes me that many people on the race course do not realise their obligations in these situations. If you mess up here, you can kill some one.

Tiki, know EXACTLY how you feel at these mark roundings. In theory you shouldn't have to worry about the other boats and just do your thing -- which needs three hands. However, in practice you end up doing the mark rounding while keeping an eye on the other boats and inevitably you f#$k up like Tornado Alive said. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Pete,
Were you involved in this scenario? And, if so, which boat were you on -- port or one of the starboard ones? And was it buoys to port?

In this case I'm not sure the jury would give special consideration to a solo under spin. It could be argued that if you can't get the boat around as another boat/team on the course then you've f'd up. I would expect a solo under spin to get the same consideration as any other boat on the course, nothing more nothing less.

You should note that the ACTUAL rules are something like 6 pages in that book. The rest are prescriptions, definitions, appendixes, and special rules for different kinds of racing. Read 'em!

Coming into the mark on Starboard is a strong approach to a downwind gate. It gets scary sometimes though with the closing speeds and things it takes to keep a spin boat under control during the rounding (and port boats that haven't read the rules)

Assuming that you are rounding the mark to port, the port boat has to give way to both starboard boats that have overlap - even if you're only overlapped with only one of them. It makes no difference if you are single handed - you should be able to manage your boat...absolutely no special rules for someone who chooses to sail single handed. Not only do you have to yield room, you have to yield right away and they should have all the room needed to make a fair rounding.

Though the port boat does have to yield to the starboard boats, it's not game over. The best approach for the port boat in this situation is, borrowing one of Rick's phrases, "slow down to win". Take your time, go a little deep, get your douse under control, let the starboard boats do their thing. You can bet on them making a slow fat rounding on the upwind side of the mark since they have to gybe and get the douse taken care of. If you prepare for the rounding and get your stuff together well, you'll be able to shoot right over them with an "enter wide, exit close" rounding strategy.

I think you are right.. and you could argue time lost and the inherent difficulty in doing it solo is accounted for by the DPN. (however, this gets dicey when thinking about the fact that there is only one number for the F16)

the whole scenario makes me nervous sailing solo though because sailign solo with the spin, you really have to have your sh-- together to not cause significant issue with the other boats.

"You should note that the ACTUAL rules are something like 6 pages in that book. The rest are prescriptions, definitions, appendixes, and special rules for different kinds of racing. "

My point exactly! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> You're right, of course. Where would one find a basic and concise rule book. I am not going to become a "sea lawyer"!

What would be more fun is: http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...9&an=0&page=0#Post144349

IMO Jake is spot on with the Rick White quote. Slow down to win.

When I raced the blade Uni, I made a point to myself that I will go into C mark on starboard, ALWAYS

I learned that C mark roundings when solo, its not too bad to overstand the line by one or two boat lengths. This way you take your spin down, and then you start heating upwind and you exit the mark nice and tight.

On the overlaps, they can occur anywhere, not just at the (2 length) zone, and it's also which boats actions caused the overlap. If the port boat in the example had it outside the zone, the stdb's are going to have to give some room. But if port tries surging in there too late, inside the zone, well that's what the rules are trying to prevent. But if I was on stbd, I sure wouldn't like it if a singlehander on port took me down with him a couple of boat lengths, instead of him prudently taking down the kite sooner, accepting he can't maintain the overlap.. esp. if the boats I was beating to the mark are now happily zipping through the gap that's been created.

I think port had rights, but chose the prudent course and doused his spin early. In any case, I don't think he lost ground.

I am not a cutthroat kinda guy and would rather lose a couple lengths than accidently foul someone- or worse- capsize on top of them. And like I have learned- not only can you gain position by slowing down on purpose to cut inside but you also give yourself a little more time to really figure out the situation and can make your next move with more confidence.
But then again, who knows if I were in a close race or if I raced more. I guess if I raced more I would have more confidence in my close quarters sailing and felt more comfortable with my split second application of the rules.
I have seen too much of the chest-beating screaming and yelling and that just kills it for me. I have sailed with someone who let no opportunity to yell at anyone pass (even at powerboats if they were even marginaly too close just when sailing, not racing). That just kills the whole spirit for me and makes me want to go home <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Oops! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> The single boat was coming in on starboard from astern, would have had to jybe, douse the spin and round. The two other boats were on port, well ahead, probably could have doused and rounded without incident. I think the two length rule protects the port boats! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

TT, help! How do you remember this?

The real problem is that this stuff happens to me all the time!

They do protect the port boats (or other give way boats) to a certain extent! If you don't use your right of way nice and early to block a guy a little, no fair jamming him out at the last second is sort of the point. I guess that's why they simplified the rules (!) to keep everybody focused on actually going around the racecourse, and if a normally right of way boat can't close the deal before the zone, just give a little room and keep going around. Of course getting everybody to act graciously is why rules are needed?
BTW, the UK-Halsey website has great little animated rules quizzes, with links to the relevant rules...

Not quite right, but close.

It's enough room to make a rounding, but not a "racing rounding"; You cannot ask for enough water to come in wide so you can round up and cut in close to the mark.

Room means enough room to get around the mark; this means (in theory) boat width plus enough to clear the dagger boards from the anchor line, plus enough to make the turn. You cannot force the boats outside you wide so you can make a "good" rounding.

It's not much of a difference, but it's a enough to make a difference in the protest room.

"Play the rules" HERE , better than reading the Federal tax code.

Overlapped at the Zone situations

Especially interesting the first one:

Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

Try here for the whole shot...

http://game.finckh.net/situat/tit_gbr/0_titel_e.htm

Pete,

Can I assume you are sailing your "Blade" which has daggerboards???? And it is a "Port" course.

1)A daggerboard boat pivots at on/its boards

2) You must give enough room for a "seamanshiply rounding"

You are only going to get 15' maybe 20'(if I am feeling generous) from me ... thats all ... not 32' or more.

You hit me ... I do care a flag and will fly it ...

You are crazy sir if you try to push that with a fleet of experienced A-Fleeters. I had a fleet of H17's hang me on the mark when they only allowed me 8' to round one time w/ my TheMightyHobie18 ... I wasn't going to T-bone anyone as the TheMightyHobie18's bow would take most of the damage. Lost my Telocat and was so pissed I damn near pulled out my knife to cut/deflate the mark between my hulls ... but then I thought better of it....

Remember: To finish first ... first you have too finish. Boats w/ holes go really slow

PS: Watched my friends ED Mills and John McLaughlin racing their "Blades" this weekend while I was on RC ... AWESOME!!! That is some ride you have there ... I may have to get me one of those machines!!!

HarryMurphey
H18mag/#9458, Fleet54/Div11
P19MX w/spin /#86, CRAC