I'm no expert either but this is what we try to do on the Tiger <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
-Strategy: Before the race or at least some time before the downwind leg think about which side of the course is favorable. Wind wise, the choices are pretty much limited to left or right and when is the best time to gybe (right after A-mark or nearer to the layline). Usually if for example the left side is favorable going upwind than that side will also be downwind (<- Does that make any sense?). Obviously current can also be a factor (closer to shore for less more offshore for more).
-Tactics: Try to keep clean air. Make sure others are not going over the top of you, and try to cover others. Dont get stuck in dirty air, gybe away if necessary. Keep an eye on VMG, don't point higher than you have to and move your crew/butt around to fly a little hull when possible. When approaching the downwind gate think early about which side you want to round it so you hold the best cards for going upwind again.
(Hopefully other will correct me if i'm wrong but I hope this helps).
Usually if for example the left side is favorable going upwind than that side will also be downwind (<- Does that make any sense?).
Well, a dumb blonde like me might think "that side" means the same side of the course will be favored both upwind and downwind.
Actually, if the left side of the course is favored as you are looking upwind, the left side of the course will be favored when you are looking downwind, which means you would head toward the side of the course OPPOSITE that which was favored on the upwind leg.
Probably not much more clear? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Explaining stuff was never my strongest point <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> But I guess you are right, maybe its just a different way of looking at things? Maybe a better explanation would be that when going upwind one tack gives better VMG, and downwind the opposite tack. So if upwind starboard is better then downwind port is better.
Hmmm. Your diagram has you going upwind on the left side of the course and going downwind on the same side of the course. If the left side was favored upwind, the left side is favored downwind, so you want to go downwind on the OPPOSITE side of the course from what you were on going upwind.
So it is not helpful to explain it according to what tack you are on. It is a matter of what side of the course you want to be on for the most favorable wind shift.
If the reason you are on the same side of the course both upwind and downwind is because there is more wind over there, then your scenario is correct. But in that kind of situation you would say that if the left side is favored upwind, the right side is favored downwind.
Sorry, but I tend to think in terms of which way the wind is shifting to decide which side is favored. If the wind is going right, you go right. If the wind is going left, you go left. And "right and left" are based upon whether you are facing upwind or downwind. The upwind's left is the downwind's right.
Of course, but this is just about using the right terminology for the side of the course you are referring to -- that the right side of the course going upwind will be the left side of the course going downwind, and the left side of the course going upwind will be the right side going downwind.
If we don't all understand this concept in the same way, it is difficult for anything to make sense.
Mary: Maybe just for the sake of this argument we will from now on see left and right as looking upwind? (Just to keep things simple). Rolf: You are right, I think there are probably a dozen other different things to be considered (current, land, obstacles, waves, shifts, etc).
Maybe just for the sake of this argument we will from now on see left and right as looking upwind? (Just to keep things simple).
No, no, no. Please don't do that to me. It has taken me years to learn to look at the course differently depending on which way I am going. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> In fact, it has taken me years just to figure out which way I am going, period. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
One side of the course way be best because the is more wind. This will mean that you go up and down the same side of the course. The same may be true for Waves; you might want to avoud big waves upwind, but they might help down.
If wind bends favour one side up wind, this may mean it is the side of the course NOT to go down wind - same may be true for tide.
If you have occilating shifts then it could be all over the place - in the absence of tide, wind bends or waves; go up and down the middle.
Another thing to consider with the kite up, how much more important in windspeed vs extra tide.
2 kts good tide mught be offset by 5 kts more wind... Need to lean the boat and how much faster it goes of r a few more kts of wind.
I will apologize in advance for doing this to you but...The rule is "The favored way up is the favored way down." Barring any tides and swell. If you just consider the wind and why it would be favored one way over the other it is because of a constant Arc of the Wind. Another rule (remember rules are not always fact) is that wind will hit land at 90 degrees. If there is wind angle of anything other than 90 degrees leading to a landmass out on the water the wind will bend toward 90 for that mass.
Here is an exaggerated illustration I made up of for sailing angles due to wind arc.
A spinnaker Catamaran, in moderate breeze, will sail 180 degree angles off the wind than it does toward the wind. Most other boats will depend on shortest distances as well and I think you can interpolate with this illustration if you sail lower angles.
You will sail shorter distances if you sail first to the center of the arc of the wind. This goes for both upwind and downwind. While going to weather you will notice a constant header on the first leg.
As mentioned before this does not consider tides, currents, or waves. This presumes you have constant wind speed and no wind line outside that effects pressure. "Pressure is King!" Your mileage may vary.
I will apologize in advance for doing this to you but...The rule is "The favored way up is the favored way down." Barring any tides and swell. If you just consider the wind and why it would be favored one way over the other it is because of a constant Arc of the Wind. Another rule (remember rules are not always fact) is that wind will hit land at 90 degrees. If there is wind angle of anything other than 90 degrees leading to a landmass out on the water the wind will bend toward 90 for that mass.
Here is an exaggerated illustration I made up of for sailing angles due to wind arc.
A spinnaker Catamaran, in moderate breeze, will sail 180 degree angles off the wind than it does toward the wind. Most other boats will depend on shortest distances as well and I think you can interpolate with this illustration if you sail lower angles.
You will sail shorter distances if you sail first to the center of the arc of the wind. This goes for both upwind and downwind. While going to weather you will notice a constant header on the first leg.
As mentioned before this does not consider tides, currents, or waves. This presumes you have constant wind speed and no wind line outside that effects pressure. "Pressure is King!" Your mileage may vary.
Later, Dan
Under what circumstances do you see this wind arc like this?
Under what circumstances do you see this wind arc like this?
I was going to say the same... maybe if you are on a REALLY big boat west of a hurricane <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Under what circumstances do you see this wind arc like this?
Every puff hits the water with this shape. On a grander scale even the sea breeze has shape to the wind arc.
There are 2 different scenarios for favored course. 1) The course is not layed out square and 1 side is then a shorter distance to sail. 2) There is greater wind pressure on 1 side vs the other. In this case for sure both up and down, it is favorable to stay on the same side with the better pressure.
I did mention it is [color:"red"]exaggerated[/color] for illustration purposes. You might see a 5 to 20 degree arc but not a 70 degree. If I was to used 5 degrees the information would not be obvious in such a small picture.
Every puff hits the water with this shape. On a grander scale even the sea breeze has shape to the wind arc.
I have seen that, but over what area? What distance? I am sure it varies. I have been told that it depends on what side of the "puff" you are on, but figuring out how to use that to your advantage is difficlut IMO.
and puffs can be a little different (especially on lakes) but I'm used to them generally being shaped like a paw radiating downwind out from a center.
Like Mary, my experience has shown that typically the favored side upwind is NOT the favored side downwind (left, right, whatever)...granted, I sail on lakes a good deal but if the wind is slowly shifting to one side, this is certainly true.
thats the way they were explained to me... like a fist hitting the water then splaying out like the hand opening. Problem is... what to do with that info other than the interest of knowing which side of the puff you are on. How long do they last? how do you tell? are you just unlucky if you are on the wrong side or can you use it to your advantage somehow?
thats the way they were explained to me... like a fist hitting the water then splaying out like the hand opening. Problem is... what to do with that info other than the interest of knowing which side of the puff you are on. How long do they last? how do you tell? are you just unlucky if you are on the wrong side or can you use it to your advantage somehow?
IMHO the only practical way to really tell is doing some pre-start practice laps (and watching what the Pro's do!). Although I feel that when going downwind wind strength is probably more important than direction.
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