Greetings,

New to the forum and new to sailing. I've been interested in getting into sailing for a while now. The wife has also voiced some interest in learning to sail. We are currently in the Galveston, TX area but have yet to get out on the water. We looked around for sailing lessons and found that it would have cost us $500 to get our license. I was advised by others to skip the lessons and start with a catamaran to learn and then work my way up.

Recently, a friend of the family mentioned he was selling a Boston Whaler Supercat 17 with trailer and sails for $800. I have not seen it yet, but he says it is in good shape. He did not remember the year, but thought it was '82 or maybe '86.

If it is indeed in good shape, does that sound like a good deal? Are parts readily available and are they as cheap and easy to find as I imagine Hobie parts are?

Unfortunatly, we're moving very shortly. The military has me moving quite a bit, which is one of the reasons I think a catamaran would be good. I can't imagine they are terribly heavy, and I have a vehicle that can tow it wherever the Army sends us. We will be moving to the Chicago area this time.

I've looked up prices for lessons and whatnot in the Chicago area and they seem to be quite a bit more than here in Galveston. Yet, another reason why I'm wondering if I should snatch up this cat before we leave.

What do you think?

On a related note, are any of you in the Chicago area? I would like to get in touch with some folks who wouldn't mind giving a pointer or two and direct us to some places to sail.


Thanks

I don't know anything about Supercats, so sorry, I can't help you there.

However, it sounds like you are under the impression that you need a captain's license to go sailing, which is not the case. Yes, you should get instruction no matter what boat you choose and keelboat programs tend to be pricey (as are the keelboats you'd be learning on).

Some cat sailor in your area would probably teach you the basics of cat sailing for a pitcher of beer and some wings. Or if you want a certified instructor I can possibly help you find one in your area.

I may know somebody in the Chicago area I can introduce you to via the magic of email. PM me if you'd like some more info from me.

The Supercat 17 is a great boat. It can be old, but its design was years ahead of its time. This price could be a bargain if the boat, trailer, sails, lines, hardware, etc. are in good shape.

A slightly modified version (a bit wider, self-tacking jib and spi added) is produced nowadays by Aquarius Sail under the name "ARC 17". Most parts remain the same, so replacements are readily available. Aquarius is a well reputed builder. You will find lots of information in their website: www.aquarius-sail.com

Ask your friend to explain how to rig it and to test sail the boat with you.

Good luck,

Supercat 17 is a great boat. If all the bits and trailer are in good shape sounds like a good deal.

I'm guessing the license you are refering to is the one that some states are requiring now if you were born after a certain date. Usually to get those you need to go to some safe boating courses (USCG Auxilliary), but I don't think you need full-on sailing classes to get those. Being the military you might want to check to see if there is a sailing club associated with the base - that can be one of the better deals for getting lessons. As an example, where I work (Goddard Space Flight Center) there is a sailing club that has a fleet of Flying Scots. To join, get lessons, and be club certified to check out club boats is around $150. You might research things like that where you're stationed now or where you're heading.

You should go out on a catamaran and see if it is for you... (my guess is you will love it)

Supercats rock! The ones i have seen and sailed all were solid and handled well. That being said... 20+ year old boats always need parts replaced and work...(so do brand new boats) so you should expect to do some work and spend some cash on parts within the first year...

The price sound good if the boat is in sailing shape.

They are pretty powerful boats and you should get some instruction.... actually the best way to tell if the boat is in good shape and you think you can handle it is to get your friend to take you out on it a few times. Even then... get some instruction, lessons, maybe even a boating safety course

You ask if parts are as available as a Hobie.... NO boat in the world has available parts like the Hobie's (esp the 16) but anything can be fixed/rebuilt/repaired...

Thanks for the quick replies!

The license I was researching was for the larger sailboats. It was required to be able to rent larger boats. I don't think it's required unless your renting...

Renting is expensive as well, so I think $800 for a boat I can take out whenever I want, realizing theres going to be some maintenance costs, is better on my wallet in the long run.

Looking into a club on post is a great idea, however, in Chicago I wont be near anything.

This guy has had the boat for around 7 years he says. Says that the sails are in storage and the boat has been sitting outside storage for a while. He said that I might want to replace the tires on the trailer, and he said the tramp might need some patching.

It sounded like he hasn't seen the thing in a while. I'm going to go have a look see this weekend. I wont be terribly surprised if it isn't in the kind of shape he says its in. We'll see. I plan on taking plenty of pictures. Perhaps I can post them here and people could get a general idea of what kind of shape its in.

Basically, I would be buying this thing, strapping it to the Forrester, and driving to Chicago. If $800 is a really good deal for this cat and a trailer I'll jump on it. If not, I'll wait till I get to Chicago.

Concerning the trailer, what exactly is needed to make it road legal? Do they require plates? Registration? Is it a state by state thing? What about the boat? Should there be a title or something? Does it need to be registered in the state I sail it in?

As far as getting him to take me out I don't think it's going to happen. I was just given the green light to move by the Army so we will be moving in the next week or two. I've been trying to get this guy to take me out on his big 27 some odd foot sail boat but he is busy for the next few weeks.

Stinks that I have been here for a year and just now find out about his boats.

The paperwork varies from state to state. Check what is required in your current state, and try to get copies of what he has that satisfy those requirements. If your current state requires a title, get the title (trailer and/or boat), etc.. Check your new state for what it requires. There are usually variances made for out of state vehicles coming in, but you may need the correct pile of papers for the previous state to make the transition. That goes for the boat as well as the trailer. Some states are lenient, others not so much.

The Supercat 17 is a terrific boat. Make sure the hulls have no soft spots, the sails have some life, and that you get all the parts. I don't need a booat, but would be tempted to get one of those at that price. Getting new tires, and repacking the bearrings is probably essential if you tow it any distance. Try to hook up with a loccal fleet. They'll save you lots of time and money by sharing experience. Many fleets will teach you to sail. Keep us posted.

Is there anyone nearby who could go along and look at the boat with DangerMouse?

On the trailer thingy...the two most important things you need are new tires/wheels (available at Walmart, but measure them first, 4 lug or 5 lug, etc. about $30 each) and new wheel bearings if you are dragging this thing all the way to Chi-town from TX. Also, lights are really nice to have when it's dark and required in most states. Of course you need a tag, but that's usually pretty cheap. You can buy a new light kit at Wal Mart as well, about $25, but the new wheel bearings could be expensive ($100 installed) if you have to get the old ones pulled off at a garage, due to rust (if as you say, it has been sitting a while and might have been in salt water, ever)

But at $800 for a SC 17 with trailer, a pretty good deal, unless it's got holes in the hulls and the sails are trashed.

Spend at least an hour looking at: the hulls from underneeth, the trailer tires/wheels/lights, and the sails/mast. Be sure the mast is not bent or dented.

There are lots of sailing clubs in the Chicago area on the big lake, but find someone who has cat experience to help you get started.

<<<<Looking into a club on post is a great idea, however, in Chicago I wont be near anything.>>>

I'm sure they still have a wonderful sailing club at Great Lakes and they used to have everything from dingies to Naval Academy 44 footers. You may have to risk your life and reputation on a "lead mine", but you will be taught sailing they right way, down to how to tie a bowline or sheetbend.

If the owner doesn't have a title for the trailer it is a major pain, at least in the state of NC. They require you to take out an indemnity bond for 1.5X the value of the trailer. Of course the fee to get someone to write the indemnity bond is about $100 or almost the value of the trailer. Completely ridiculous!

The sailing gang there near you sails at Jamaica Beach (the "Cat House") or the Texas City Dike.

Either way, go here
www.tcdyc.com

and post your question there. Someone will either already know the boat or will be glad to go have a look with you. And they'll also be glad to help you get acquainted with sailing.

I love supercats but don’t feel rushed to purchase this boat because it is available. There are 100's of catamarans available for sale. i bet that $800 plus new tires ($30-40ea), bearings (est $60 ea), registration in TX (if needed)then IL, and gas(est $1.3million) will cost you more than expected and you can find other starter cats for the same amount without the hassle of driving across the USA.


If the boat and trailer is in GREAT shape.. and you really want this supercat... go for it.. they are great but take lots of time looking. take a close look at the hulls, sails, all the metal (beams, mast, rudders, rigging, etc).

I personally wouldn’t purchase a boat that has been sitting outside for years without a test ride, or a full rigging at the very least. Not to mention if you don’t know how to rig it… you will be “flying blind” in IL.

If your going to the Chicago area and your military the MWR program at great lakes Ill had a boating safety cource. Alot cheaper than outside private lessons. Also you can get your uscg safe boating quals done on base. Look into them.

Thank you all again for your replies.

I'll definitely look into Great Lakes and the MWR, I hadn't thought of that. I'm sure those Navy folks wont be too turned off by a Army medic looking to learn to sail.

I called the County tax office here today. In Texas, a trailer does not need to be titled unless its empty weight is over 4000 lbs. I can also get a 30 day temporary permit for $25 dollars, to get me up to Illinois. He couldn't guarantee other states would honor it if I got pulled over, but said he had never heard of it being a problem.

I posted over at that Yacht club. Sounds like they are very close to me. Unfortunately their web server is down so I posted on their temporary google setup. I asked if maybe someone would be willing to check the cat out with me this weekend, we'll see what happens.

If this boat turns out to be in bad shape, what would you recommend? Personally, when I get into a hobby I go all the way, probably more than I should. My wife is another story. I just think it would be a great thing to have to take on camping trips etc. I have a son who is still too young for boating, but I imagine it would be a great father son thing to do when he gets old enough.

Don't worry about it... there are plenty of catamaran's for sale in IL... i am sure you can find one. Look on craigslist, thebeachcats.com, etc... It is a great sport for sure.. I am sure with just a bit of research, you can find a great used cat to fill your needs in IL.

Might be a good deal. Take someone who knows what they are doing with you when you check it out. Or just wait to get one in Chicago. I'm just west of the city in St. Charles and I picked up a Hobie 18 for 600 with most everything one would need. Used cats are cheap unless someone is selling it on a sailing website--ha! Even then they are cheap though. Craigslist is your friend there. Winters suck here, but the summers are great! I'll be in Texas next weekend for the Texas 200 raid with my H 18 if you are still around--it goes from S. Padre to Magnolia Beach.

Dan

Don't buy. That is, unless you like fixing boats more than sailing...

Additionaly to what was already said (straight mast, usable sails, etc.) old Supercats may develop problems in the transom because the rudder stock and gudgeon are strong and the glass may break first. Same with gudgeons loose from th transom. Old rudders may not be working. Bring a silicone spray and apply some to see if they move (one line pulls down and the other pulls up - test). The stainless steel rigging may be in bad shape, torn, etc.

It was stored outside, but maybe something was used to protect it from the sun. Check this. Exposition to UV destroys the tramp and make the hulls look ugly long before permanent damage is caused to the hull. UV damage may be only cosmetic, but it can also go real deep, sometimes beyond repair. Verify.

Somewhere in the web there was a checklist specific for each cat model. There was a link in the Catsailor site years ago, I'm not sure if it is still there. Try to find it if you have to check the boat without experienced aid.

just a quick update:

The family friend just called my father in law. Boats at his house ready for me to look at. He dropped the price down to $300. My first thought is that he had a look at the boat and it's not in as good of shape as he though. This may be the case to some extent, but I think it has more to do with the fact that he just wants to get rid of the thing, for space purposes.


We'll see.