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F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond) #144855
06/05/08 03:37 PM
06/05/08 03:37 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

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Ref: http://rotdominoserver.ti.mon3aan.nl/IIS/finishlists/tdo2008/index.htm

We have an F16 Blade in the Texel Open (the Rounde Texel race is this weekend). Is Geert and Raymond the first ones? Sure hope they intend to race around the island as well.

Photos and film available at: http://www.roundtexel.com/medialib/index.asp

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Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond) [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #144856
06/05/08 05:54 PM
06/05/08 05:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
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Marcus F16  Offline
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Rolf,

Will they have live streaming again this year.?


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond) [Re: Marcus F16] #144857
06/05/08 10:37 PM
06/05/08 10:37 PM
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taipanfc Offline
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Any other of our illustrious Dutch F16 sailors attending their country's biggest cat event/regatta? It is in their backyard so shouldn't be any excuse.

Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Marcus F16] #144858
06/05/08 11:40 PM
06/05/08 11:40 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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I dont know Marcus, but I would think and hope so.

Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond) [Re: taipanfc] #144859
06/06/08 01:49 AM
06/06/08 01:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
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Apparently its quiet an expensive exercise even for the locals, as you have to go across on a ferry to the event & the entry fee is not cheap?

Love to do the event one day. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond) [Re: Marcus F16] #144860
06/06/08 02:37 AM
06/06/08 02:37 AM
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taipanfc Offline
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Quite expensive but the biggest cat regatta!? Normally the 2 don't mix.

But do plan to get there one day and sail Texel in the next few yrs.

Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond) [Re: taipanfc] #144861
06/06/08 07:05 AM
06/06/08 07:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
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I see Geert has done a couple of the races, maybe he can share his experience & advise what the logistics are like getting there.?


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond) [Re: Marcus F16] #144862
06/06/08 02:53 PM
06/06/08 02:53 PM
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scooby_simon Offline
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Been to Texel for a Euro's once; the ferry can be a pain, yes it's not cheap. year we went we got 10 mins sailing as it blew old boots for the entire week. Sailed off the beach; broker rudder - end of regatta!

Rounde Om Texel was cancelled as it was blowing F6-7 onshore. First time it was ever cancelled....

:-(


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond) [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #144863
06/07/08 08:12 AM
06/07/08 08:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
arievd Offline
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Looks like they finished 140th (corrected, 500 boats)


Arie
Hobie 16 111812
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: arievd] #144864
06/08/08 05:41 AM
06/08/08 05:41 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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At the start I saw a uni Viper as well, dont know how well he sailed though as the results seem to be down.

It is an expensive race but if you consider you get 4 days of racing for 110 entry fee and 70 ferry costs IMHO it is not too bad (especially when you go camping to keep cost down, and take full advantage of the Hobiecat BBQ which has free drinks! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).

This was the fifth time I did the race (first time crewing) we finished 95th overall which was not too bad, it could have been a bit better if we stuck to the coast on the spinnaker leg (50% of the course).

The "problem" we and a lot of other cats had with the Dutch Open was that the (sloop)M20s where so ridiculously fast that when they closed the finish after 20 minutes nearly half the (F18) fleet was still sailing.

Another thing I noticed was that the new rig Nacra 17 was quite competitive sailing 2-up (very light Aussie crew though).

There was also an A-Cat with spi being sailed by Remco Kenbeek (overall winner 2006) but dont know how well he did.

Thats it for the debriefing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Tony_F18] #144865
06/08/08 07:14 AM
06/08/08 07:14 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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Sounds like a good time Tony! Even if I am not one for large and congested events, Texel is one of the few events I really want to do.

Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Tony_F18] #144866
06/08/08 07:42 AM
06/08/08 07:42 AM
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Quote

Another thing I noticed was that the new rig Nacra 17 was quite competitive sailing 2-up (very light Aussie crew though).



And it should be as it is resembling the F16's more and more. The F17 has an alu wingmast now that came of the Infusion F18 which stole the idea from the capricorn F18 which in turn was inspired by the Taipan Superwing mast that we all have on our alu masted F16's. Of course the Superwing is a refinement of the Sori A-cat mast.

Also the F17 is now more and more sailed as a sloop apparently. And the F17 has shed some 20 kg weight lately and had an updated sail design. The only difference between it and the F16 now is the mast length (+0.5 mtr), hull length (+0.20 mtr) and the weight (+25 kg). In itself these differences are quite small overall and hence the handicap is only a few points slower then the F16.

To me this all proofs that the lightweight short hulled alu masted sloop design with a modern cut suit of sails is a winner ! A concept pioneered in the F16 class !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Wouter] #144867
06/08/08 10:02 AM
06/08/08 10:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
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Thanks for that Wouter.....So where did you finish? The texel website is fairly slow at the moment and i cant check out the results.


Aido
Viper 288
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Aido] #144868
06/08/08 10:32 AM
06/08/08 10:32 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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For somebody refusing to share who and where they are, you sure have a spiked tounge "Sue". Before going after one of the oldest members of the class, it would be good form to contribute to the class and share who you are.

Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Aido] #144869
06/08/08 10:36 AM
06/08/08 10:36 AM
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Western Australia
Stewart Offline
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Sue, give credit where credit is due..

Those who struggled to develop the concept of the F16 did a fantastic job.. The concept has shown itself to be sound and well thought out.. Wouter isnt the greatest sailor on the planet but it was his dedication and stubbornness that held us together in the early days..

Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Stewart] #144870
06/08/08 11:16 AM
06/08/08 11:16 AM
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Australia
macca Offline
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I think its great that Wouter has just thrown some numbers into his post without any verification whatsoever. Where is the science?

If the F17 has lost 20kgs in weight then it must be missing something (like 4 feet of hull length?) because the laminate has not changed nor has the core so the 20kg must be coming from somewhere!! Maybe the hulls are filled with helium...

Also great to see Wouter taking credit for a manufacturers own development path..?? I think you will find that F16 had nothing to do with the F17 development and its clearly linked to F18.

Oh and by the way the Infusion mast is vastly different to the Capricorn section, but I can understand how it could be mistaken for the same thing... both are long extrusions of alloy...


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Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: macca] #144871
06/08/08 11:33 AM
06/08/08 11:33 AM
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Western Australia
Stewart Offline
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I was actually discussing the F16.. I did not comment on the F17...

As for the F17 I don't know the weight nor did I say I did.. But if its true.. It could also mean that Nacra has finally figured out how to build a cat properly. Then it could still be false in which case they haven't progressed since 1972..

Also read what Wouter said.. Sori A mast went to Superwing to Capricorn to Infusion to F17.. Or are you saying that Nacra never looked at either the other masts out there and thought how can we improve?

Whatever.. fact is Wouter held the F16 class together in the early days..

Last edited by Stewart; 06/08/08 11:38 AM.
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Aido] #144872
06/08/08 12:04 PM
06/08/08 12:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
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scooby_simon Offline
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Quote
Thanks for that Wouter.....So where did you finish? The texel website is fairly slow at the moment and i cant check out the results.


Sue, have you got a crappy Internet connection maybe? I've been getting very variable performance from my ISP .......


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: scooby_simon] #144873
06/08/08 12:35 PM
06/08/08 12:35 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Just exactly how does boat weight affect performance?
The Polish Exploder F18 team's boat weighed in at 198.5(!) KG. If a Tiger or Infusion weighed that much you
would probably ask your money back, yet they where very competitive and finished 16th overall (IMHO it was also a very ugly boat making it even more remarkable <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ).

It is still strange that so little F16s show up, every year it is only Geert.
There must be more boats in the neighboring countries that are able to make the trip?
(Correction: There where also 2 Viper's at pos 116 & 338).

Last edited by Tony_F18; 06/08/08 12:42 PM.
Re: F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymo [Re: Tony_F18] #144874
06/08/08 12:48 PM
06/08/08 12:48 PM
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Australia
macca Offline
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Australia
Weight is a big factor in performance, and the Exploder things were total rubish! We were in front of most of them!!

Texel is the biggest cat race in the world and if F16 wants to be taken seriously then maybe the class should make the effort to get there and make an impression on the market.


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