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roller furling question #149882
07/19/08 09:40 AM
07/19/08 09:40 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 40
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DangerMouse Offline OP
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As you may remember, I posted a while back while searching for a catamaran. I had gone and looked at a supercat 17, posted pictures, and asked for your opinions on whether it was a good buy for $300. The general concensus was that while Supercats are great boats, the particular one I was looking at was too much of a project boat.

In the end, I bought Turbocat's Nacra 5.0 and have been enjoying it ever since.

(Small side note: forgetting to rotate the mast 90 degrees when taking it down costs $50.49 plus shipping for a new dolphin striker rod.) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Anywho, recently I became curious about roller furlings and looked them up online. Holey cripes are they expensive. I looked back at the pictures I had taken of the Supercat and what do you know, a roller furling.

It appears to be a Harken

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Now, I'm wondering if I could use this roller furling on my Nacra. What does installing this system entail beyond just the pictured unit? Are they particular to each design of boat or are they generic? Do you have to have a battenless jib? Some kind of hardware at the mast so that the forstay can rotate?

If this guy, who you may recall is a friend of the family, still has the boat, do you think it would be worth trying to talk him into selling me just that roller furling?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: roller furling question [Re: DangerMouse] #149883
07/19/08 02:27 PM
07/19/08 02:27 PM

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Yes battenless jib and you will need some type and swivel and a pulley system to raise the jib. Some jibs are zippered like on my Hobie 17 and some have little plastic pieces that slide over the halyard. OH and use a 1 to 2 system. Make furling a snap when the wind picks up or between races.

Hope this helps,

Doug

Attached Files
152373-1to2system.JPG (58 downloads)
Re: roller furling question [Re: DangerMouse] #149884
07/19/08 03:39 PM
07/19/08 03:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Harken used to make a unit similar to the Hobie-18 system - the furler drum fits below a stainless bridle attachment piece - that would be preferable so you don't lose as much on the forestay lenght, IMO. You might try trolling for a used Hobie-18 furling set up.

You can use battens on a rolle furling jib - however they must be conifgured properly. Some boats only have a batten near the top of the sail, and if it's flexible enough it can roll right up (Hobie-20). In other cases the batten pockets are moved so that they are almost parallel to the luff of the sail - they still give support to the leech of the sail but can be rolled up. Most modern boats offer a furling or non furling jib, with the battens configured appropriately.

Re: roller furling question [Re: Keith] #149885
07/19/08 04:05 PM
07/19/08 04:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
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self_inflicted Offline
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Hi
I had a fitted to my nacra 5.0(that's what they are called in AUS)it had a bridle foil on it,and i found that the angle had to be just right to get the jib to furl,It could have been the way the foil held the furler under load??
You might have to also make up a new forestay to allow for the furler
Just a thought

Re: roller furling question [Re: DangerMouse] #149886
07/19/08 04:28 PM
07/19/08 04:28 PM

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Most everyhting you need should be on this page:

http://www.murrays.com/archive/41.pdf

Don't know if the Super H-17 kits bridle foil would fit, BUT it would give you all the hardware you needed except for jib. That is what I use with custom reacher on my H-17.

Doug

Re: roller furling question [Re: ] #149887
07/20/08 11:59 PM
07/20/08 11:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
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The original furling set ups on the early SC20s were from Ronstan, less pricey than the Harken set up you have pictured. I recently bought the drum for less than $60 from Rigging Only, and I believe the upper swivel was about the same money. Rick can probably get them as well at the OnLine Store. They worked fine on that boat, and I have the pictured Harken drum and swivel on Flight Risk's screecher. It's more than you need for a small cat jib, although it will work fine. Your forestay will need shortening, which might make your existing jib need modification. I'd recommend holding off till you're willing to have a new jib made specifically for furling.

Dave

Re: roller furling question [Re: DangerMouse] #149888
07/21/08 08:41 AM
07/21/08 08:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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You will need:

furling drum

top swivel

shorter forestay wire (can probably shorten the existing one) so it goes between the swivel and the drum.

pigtail forestay for the swivel to the mast hound - may be able to shackle the swivel right to the hound with a long or doubled up shackles.

Block for jib halyard

lower cleat for jib halyard (must cleat on the part of the forestay that turns) - this is usually a metal piece of hardware that pins to your forestay chainplate. Alternatively, you can just tie the halyard to a set tension.

furling line to go from the furler to the main beam (on a jib, it doesn't need the purchase that Doug showed in his drawing. For a screacher, you need the purchase because of the long foot length.

cleat on mainbeam for furler line.

you may also need longer jib sheets since they now need the ability to reach all the way to the forestay for when the sail is furled.


Jake Kohl
Re: roller furling question [Re: Jake] #149889
07/21/08 09:11 AM
07/21/08 09:11 AM
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DangerMouse Offline OP
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Sounds like a costly production regardless of whether I can get a few parts cheap from a friend or not.

I think I'll hold off on this, for a while anyway. It's not a hugely important upgrade but a convenience thing.

The jib sheet gets hung up on the mast and rigging sometimes when I tack. Kind of annoying and doesn't make for a smooth transition.

I like my friends Hobie 16 for the fact that there are tracks (travelers?) for the jib up at the front cross bar. With the pulleys out front there, the jib sheet rarely binds on anything. Plus, he said it allows for more tweaking of the jib. Locking the pulleys in on a close haul and letting them go all the way out downwind

(please excuse the improper terms, I'm still learning them)

I was looking for that part I bent taking down my mast and noticed that some of the newer Nacra's have a traveler/track up there too. Talked about it with Turbocat and he said that it was something that I could rivet to my existing cross bar (terminology?)

Sounds like a better bang for my buck

Last edited by DangerMouse; 07/21/08 09:12 AM.
Re: roller furling question [Re: DangerMouse] #149890
07/21/08 10:20 AM
07/21/08 10:20 AM

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Glad to hear you are out sailing and enjoying your cat.

I think the track you saw is for a "self tacking jib". that is an expensive upgrade as well... and personally i would suggest you learn to work with the system you have. the jib is a very important part to cat sailing and the more you learn about jib controll and shape... the better sailer you will be.

You may want to look into JIB BATTEN HINGE from Hobie. I had them on my Hoboe 16 and they worked well. Not sure if it will work for you (and if your battens will fit) but maybe they will...
http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/08_15-19.pdf (page 4) to help the jib get accross the mast if it is getting hung up....

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
152472-jib.jpg (17 downloads)
Last edited by andrewscott; 07/21/08 10:22 AM.
Re: roller furling question [Re: ] #149891
07/21/08 11:07 AM
07/21/08 11:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 308
Reno NV
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The Nacra 5.0 doesn't have a fully battened jib, so the Hobie batten hinge things won't do anything for you.

If your main problem is the jib sheets getting caught while tacking (on my boat it was usually under the mast base), there are simpler solutions. On Nacra 5.8s people usually run a small diameter bungee from one bridle tang, around the bottom of the diamond wires to the other bridle tang. That will keep the jib sheet up and clear from things it can hangup on. I think that trick will work with the 5.0, but you might have to get creative.

I recently added a self-tacker to my 5.8. It was simple to do, but cost about $400 in parts, not to mention getting a jib that was cut properly for it.

Re: roller furling question [Re: ] #149892
07/21/08 11:08 AM
07/21/08 11:08 AM
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TurboCat Offline
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Hey justin check out this link: http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d312000/e311596.asp
You will see the track and the cleats...12-18 inch track on each side of the crossbar will give you the barberhauler effect and would clean up the tramp nicely. I dont know if you want the swivel or fixed though? I would think swivel.
Im talking about the series 19 c-track stuff thats in the secon picture.

Re: roller furling question [Re: Rhino1302] #149893
07/21/08 11:40 AM
07/21/08 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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on my 5.2, I used to take a bunji from the outer extreme ends of the front beam (hooked to a small loop of line I tied to the dolphin striker ends) up to the mast through the diamond wires. It would go from beam end, from front to back through one side of the diamond wires, around the back of the mast, through the other diamond wire, then to the end of the dolphin striker end. This formed a triangle and kept the jib sheets from getting near all the hardware at the base of the mast. The bunji had enough "give" to it that it would keep things from getting snagged on it.


Jake Kohl
Re: roller furling question [Re: ] #149894
07/21/08 11:41 AM
07/21/08 11:41 AM
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DangerMouse Offline OP
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Thanks Andrew, it is great to finally be out sailing.

I don't think I described it well enough because I don't think we are talking about the same thing here.

I'm sure it would be much easier if I knew the terms for the parts of my cat.

My Nacra has two very small battens up near the top and are not what catches when it swings over to the other side. The sheet itself catches on the mast. It snags on the turnbuckle for the spreader line.

Turbocat had made a temporary fix by taking bungee cord, tying one end to the front cross beam, routing it up through the top of the turnbuckle, and then back down to the other end of the cross beam. This helps somewhat but not enough that it isn't a problem.

Let me try to explain my friends Hobie a little better. It has 2 tracks on the front cross beam, one on each side. The two pulleys that the jib sheet goes through before going up to the jib are attached to these tracks, one on each side. The pulleys can then be adjusted out out and in the length of the track and then tightened down so that it cannot travel at all.

When we are sailing into the wind he tightens it down close to the mast. When we sail downwind he tightens it down at the outer end of the track.

I'm not sure that this is considered a "self tacking jib" as I don't think it does anything by itself but gives you more options to control the shape.

Here's a picture of an old SolCat put out to pasture that I visited when looking for a boat. It has the same type of thing on the front cross beam.

[Linked Image]

Hope I did a better job describing it. Sorry again

Re: roller furling question [Re: DangerMouse] #149895
07/21/08 11:42 AM
07/21/08 11:42 AM
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Santa Cruz, CA
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Quote
The jib sheet gets hung up on the mast and rigging sometimes when I tack.


Whose got a pic of the way they do it on the TheMightyHobie18 to prevent the jib sheets from getting caught on the base? Basically you tie a piece of 1/4" shock cord to each hull under the fwd Xbar. Then tie the center up the mast a few feet. It will only cost you a couple of bucks and it might work for you.

J

Re: roller furling question [Re: Rhino1302] #149896
07/21/08 11:46 AM
07/21/08 11:46 AM

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Quote
run a small diameter bungee from one bridle tang, around the bottom of the diamond wires to the other bridle tang


I clip a single bungie from a bridal wire to a line i have tied on both diamond wires to prevent my lines from getting fouled.

This works 95% of the time. It is important to make sure you have a line on both diamonds so the bungie can slide as the mast rotates (otherwise it puts some "pull" on 1 side of your diamond wires and not the other.)

I use little plastic clips on all 4 ends (2 on the bungie, 2 on the diamond wires) for easy on and off...

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
152486-sp.jpg (18 downloads)
Last edited by andrewscott; 07/21/08 12:04 PM.
Re: roller furling question [Re: TurboCat] #149897
07/21/08 11:48 AM
07/21/08 11:48 AM
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DangerMouse Offline OP
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hey Turbo, is that the link we were talking about the other day? That isn't a self tacking jib system is it?

Jake, the bungee thing is what Turbo had set up. Maybe I need to try to get it higher up the mast.

Re: roller furling question [Re: DangerMouse] #149898
07/21/08 11:59 AM
07/21/08 11:59 AM

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Gotcha. That is the standard travler track for the hobie16 (and many others). Your friend has the right idea, in close when upwind, traveled out for downwind. This is basically the same on the main sail...

That took me years to remember and even more to understand why.

A self tacking jib is a unique and modern curved track that allows the jib to switch sides on its own.... different creature...

I dont know how nacra 5.0's have the jib blocks but to reconfigure them is relatively big undertaking... I donít know what would happen if you put travler tracks on your beams but I am sure that would change the angle of the jib block / sheet and move the pocket / effect the jib.

I think working out a bungee system is the way to go. Either from the bridal as i show, or from the outer beams - to the mast- to the other beam in a piramid shape (as I did on my hobie 18).

I had a eye strap on each side of my beam and 1 on my mast that I would run a bugie through each time I rigged.

Below is a pic of how I ran it (in red)

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
152489-sp3.jpg (14 downloads)
Last edited by andrewscott; 07/21/08 12:06 PM.
Re: roller furling question [Re: Rhino1302] #149899
07/21/08 12:37 PM
07/21/08 12:37 PM

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DangerMouse:

Put a small eyelet on the fron of your mast about 3 feet up. Run a piece of bungee from the corners of front crossbars thru the eyelet. This V will keep the sheets clear of the mast. Works GREAT.

Doug

Re: roller furling question [Re: ] #149900
07/21/08 01:30 PM
07/21/08 01:30 PM
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Danger already has the bungee set-up. Check out the link I posted for the track and cleats. Tie the bungee up higher and it shouldn't happen anymore. You may need more shock cord too move it up. The track would definately clear up the tramp.

Re: roller furling question [Re: DangerMouse] #149901
07/21/08 01:38 PM
07/21/08 01:38 PM
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TurboCat Offline
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you could put tracks on each side with the block&cleat and do away with your existing block&cleat that's on the tramp. $100-150 and your set-up.

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