i have the sail in the back of the truck and i am headin' to the sailmaker today. i think putting a reef point will enable me to sail in that 18-22knts with more control. i want to ask the forum - what % of the sail should i reef down? 15%?, 20 %? i want know the effects until after its done, so i really have to guess

Hello,
I'm also thinking of adding reefing points. My question to the experts concerns the haylard. Do you add a wire haylard on top of the sail which is the same length as the amount of sail that you have reefed? If so, does the ring connect and release from the mast hook easily when you want to raise and lower the sail? I'm want it on my Prindle, but I think the hook and ring is used on many other cats also.
Thanks,
Jack Hoying
Fort Loramie, Ohio
Prindle 18 #1645
http://www.bright.net/~jmhoying/sailing/prindle.htm

the halyard extension wont work. there has to be a attachment point directly at the head of the reefed sail. or it will blow out of the luff track. from what i understand, use the same hardware that holds the head of the sail. in the h17 case, there is a hook, i will rivot on another lower. hopefully the prindle has a hook? i think the order of things would be: 1. have reef points added at some percentage of the sail. 2. mount the hook according to the new sail height. what % should i have the sail cut???

do you have a hook and ring system up there?

Guys,

This was the same question I was milling over this winter. I have a SC20TR with a stock pin-head with muiltiple reef points (which I have never used). Currently I run a wire halyard, but was thinking of going to hook and ring for the main. In doing this, I'm affaid I would loose fast reefing ability.
There has only been one or two times I(we) should have reefed her, one race we got caught in a burst (+35), what a ride! The second race we had to bail-out and return back to the beach, too much power - live to race another day!
Good luck with mods, and remember to use it to save yourself and not to sail in soup you shouldn't be out in anyway.

there might be a problem with installing a second lower hook. if the lower hook is not removable, it will wear a hole in the sail. if it is removable, it won't be there when you need to reef the sail.

as far as the bolt rope blowing out of the luff track, you might consider having a metal slug attached to the sail at the head. if a slug can get pulled out of the track, you propably don't want to be anywhere near the water.

yes, i thought about this lower hook problem chaffing the sail, and it probably will, but shouldnt the mast rotation keep that to a minimum, or even if i mount the hook as far off center as i can get it?

if the hook is on the windward side the mast rotation will actually push the hook into the sail. the last thing you need as it starts to blow like snot is a hole in the sail. it will provide a place for a huge rip to start. remember, as it starts to blow you will harden up on the outhaul and cunningham/downhaul. this will flatten the sail to depower, but will also tighten the cloth. under these conditions a small hole will become a big hole. i think what you need is a halyard that can take the load. that way, you can lower the sail as much as you need (like it is done on a monohull). i believe the hobie 16 used a loaded wire halyard with an extra ball for reefing.

>the halyard extension wont work. there has to be a attachment point directly at the head of the reefed sail. or it will blow out of the luff track<

Could you tie a loop around the mast, then through the grommet at the head to prevent it from comming out of the luff track?
It would have to be a good knot!
Or perhaps use sister hooks to complete the loop. [color:"orange"] [/color]

yes, that would be the simplest thing to do - just lash the head of the sail to the mast. i am going to try the lower hook thing anyway.

hi
my h-16 has a single reef (%??) points are in the middle of the first and second lowest battens. i just reattach it into the goose neck like the original foot, and tie the extra sail to the boom with some extra line.
works great when you need it. i've used it twice or 0.01% of the time so it's kinda useless. i have better luck just sailing very safely, unstead of trying to fly a hull in 35 knots.

just a thought. have you ever had a loose batten in a strong blow. both times it happened to me, i finished the day with a trip to the sailmaker to repair the hole where the batten pocket wore through. i really think the lower hook will do the same thing. if you install the hook off center, you might have problems making the ring catch the hook. if you do install the second hook, let us know how well it works. i suspect if it doesn't work well you will know after (or maybe during )the first day of use.

i am not talkin about 35knts of air. i am not crazy. my goal here is to sail solo under control at full power in the 18-20 range. with crew maybe a little more air. i grew up on a h16 and never used the reeefing points because it would want to pitch pole in heavy air. that boat had a slug on the halyard. with no head attachment to the comp-tip mast. same as my h17. the 16's when reefed, does the sail pull away?

i'll let you know how this works

I've thought a bit about the problem of the lower hook messing with the sail when it is fully raised. I think a hook that pivots could be created to fix this.

Think of a hook that can rotate, and has a stop to keep if from rotating further down than 90 degrees to the mast. It could be spring loaded to keep it rotated up against another stop, parallel to the mast and away from the sail when not in use. A small line from it down the mast would be all that would be needed to rotate it down so the ring could hook it - the pressure of the sail would then keep it against the stop. Let off the deployment line, pull the halyard to raise the sail and the hook would return to its position out of the way. If the spring idea is too much trouble, a second line could be added to stow it.

This wouldn't be a hard thing to create, and would make it easier to reef. If you make 'em to sell give me a split of the action...

Another thing I've thought of relates to the functionality of windsurfing sails sold by Multi-Sail (Randy Reynolds' company), in which the lower panels of the sails can be removed via zipper to make a smaller sail. On catamarans with full battens, this would seem to be an easy thing to do - zip off the lower panel leaving a smaller sail that could still have a proper downhaul and outhaul attachment. Roll up the zipped off portion and stow it on the tramp, or in a sail bag tube under the tramp.

I've always felt that it is a huge mistake that our boats don't have the capability to easily reduce sail area. I know we have all these wonderful technics for de-powering and tuning to handle the heavy stuff, but these things often create drag, and if you put a foot wrong you're in trouble. A sail plan properly configured for the conditions at hand would be faster and safer. I'm sure some purists will flame me on this one, so be it. I'll keep my belief that all cats should be able to roller furler their jibs and reef their mains (even if mine can't).

Another approach, rather than lashing the sail top to the mast, is to use a ceramic sail slug. That will keep the top of the sail in the luff grove and still slide pretty easily.

Tom H.

The Hobie 21SC has a roller furling main( it rolls up on the boom). I believe the sail is held up by only the haylard. How do they keep that sail in the track when it's reefed?

Though pricey that system would be nice for cruising.

Mike

i suggested this earlier.

i bought the stock hook plate. it won't work. the profile of the mast comp tip further down where it normally goes is too different. a custom hook would have to be made. one that is retractable and expensive. i will try something else, like seeing if the sail will actually pull from the luff track with a halyard extension to the head of the reefed sail, not a lower hook, but using the hook at the top of the pole. it works for the h16 and h21! and yes, maybe a slug in the luff track if that doesnt work.

If you have a comptip don't bother trying to use the top hook with an extention. It will definitely pull out. The only time I've seen this work is with all aluminum masts. And even then I wouldn't make any promises.

Mike Hill
H20 #791