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Let the Big Dog eat! #153878
09/02/08 12:35 PM
09/02/08 12:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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From today's Scuttlebutt news letter:

NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE
August 31 2008 -- The uncertainty of the next America's Cup, locked as it is
in the New York courts, took another twist last week with the launch of
Larry Ellison's American challenger, and the enormity of the problem brought
into sharp focus when a 100-foot long trimaran hit the waters off Anacortes
in Washington State. This gigantic three-hulled vessel has a 158ft mast.
Nothing like this has ever been seen before and its proportions would
indicate that Ellison's BMW Oracle Racing team has covered all possible
bases. The entire structure was completed in a specially built complex in
order to control the temperature and humidity within fine limits.

The trimaran was launched by Melinda Erkelens, appropriately the legal
advisor of the Golden Gate Yacht Club through which Ellison's challenge was
lodged, on 22 August, 157 years, exactly, after the original race around the
Isle of Wight that began this competition. It marked the culmination of nine
months' work by the 30-strong design team and a vast number of builders,
involving a total of 80,000 man hours.

Construction is principally in aerospace-quality carbon fibre, chosen for
its high strength and lightness, and uses other materials more usually
associated with this high-tech industry. Nothing has been left to chance in
the design and construction of this boat and the sailing team is anxious to
begin sailing trials. The 500 square-metre mainsail - more than twice the
size of the ones used by the boats in the Cup races last year in Valencia -
was due to be put aboard yesterday and hoisted for the first time today. It
will be complemented by headsails of up to 350 square metres and asymmetric
spinnakers of up to 700 square metres - a total downwind sail area of almost
two football pitches. -- Bob Fisher The Observer, full story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/31/sailing

Anyone got pictures or video of this thing sailing? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153879
09/02/08 02:00 PM
09/02/08 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23
Vancouver, WA
TJP Offline
stranger
TJP  Offline
stranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23
Vancouver, WA

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153880
09/02/08 09:52 PM
09/02/08 09:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
Too much rig.
It will be reefed all of the time in AC sailing window.

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153881
09/03/08 01:18 AM
09/03/08 01:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
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W
Joined: Jul 2006
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Bay of Islands, NZ
More then anything the sight of this boat makes realize just how arrogant the mono sailors are. To imagine they will be up to speed with this boat is a joke.

XL

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: warbird] #153882
09/03/08 05:50 AM
09/03/08 05:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
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Wasn't light air one of the problems they had in the last AC? I don't think they designed this thing for ocean racing around the world, more of a megga day sailor.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153883
09/03/08 02:06 PM
09/03/08 02:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
seems kind of pricey for a daysailer, doesn't it?


Jay

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: warbird] #153884
09/03/08 02:09 PM
09/03/08 02:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
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uk
You haven't checked out the i-shares vx 40 results lately have you?


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: waterbug_wpb] #153885
09/03/08 02:33 PM
09/03/08 02:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
For you an me... yes. But when uncle Larry cashes his paycheck they just weigh the pallets of cash.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: David Ingram] #153886
09/03/08 02:37 PM
09/03/08 02:37 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


what you mean everyone doesnt have a team of 30 working with space station grade carbon fiber in their barn (hanger)?

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: waterbug_wpb] #153887
09/03/08 03:35 PM
09/03/08 03:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
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"Pricey" is a relative thing, I just wish he were MY relative. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'd sure like a ride on that thing.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153888
09/04/08 11:12 AM
09/04/08 11:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
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Last edited by hobie18rich; 09/04/08 11:14 AM.

Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
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R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: F-18 5150] #153889
09/04/08 11:19 AM
09/04/08 11:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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T
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Portland, Maine
mmmm bananna boards <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: F-18 5150] #153890
09/04/08 11:37 AM
09/04/08 11:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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That looks very fast, and not very windy.....

I want one.......


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: F-18 5150] #153891
09/04/08 11:37 AM
09/04/08 11:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,303
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
ohhhh...that's some real eye-candy right there! What's it blowing in that picture? 8 maybe? Holy moly.

Last edited by Jake; 09/04/08 11:40 AM.

Jake Kohl
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: scooby_simon] #153892
09/04/08 11:39 AM
09/04/08 11:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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Robi  Offline
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The wind may appear not very fast on the surface, but remember that mast is almost 200 feet high. That said the wind up there is very different than the wind on the surface.

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Robi] #153893
09/04/08 11:41 AM
09/04/08 11:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,303
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
it's 160 feet.


Jake Kohl
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Jake] #153894
09/04/08 11:53 AM
09/04/08 11:53 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
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It is impressive to fly 2 hulls without hydrofoils

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Jake] #153895
09/04/08 12:03 PM
09/04/08 12:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,281
Long Beach, California
J
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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J
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,281
Long Beach, California
Love how they're using spray suits with dark material at the seat... it won't show when they crap their pants at Mach II. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Jake] #153896
09/04/08 12:11 PM
09/04/08 12:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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Robi  Offline
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Quote
it's 160 feet.
I couldnt remember the exact number, that is still pretty high up in the air. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: John Williams] #153897
09/04/08 12:28 PM
09/04/08 12:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
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IndyWave  Offline
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Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
Quote
Love how they're using spray suits with dark material at the seat... it won't show when they crap their pants at Mach II. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Maybe those are white pants, and they already did! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #153898
09/04/08 01:00 PM
09/04/08 01:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
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Yes, I spot 'Naner boards' to add insult to injury...

Well, you can be sure that they will NEVER try to lift the lee hull out of the water, because that could be "Hydrofoiling", probably already declared illegal in the AC Challenge. OOoop? Nobody thought of that before because AC sailors never read this humble Catsailor Website?

Hooray for Larry! Another LAWSUIT!


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: ] #153899
09/04/08 01:40 PM
09/04/08 01:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Carpal Tunnel
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Quote
It is impressive to fly 2 hulls without hydrofoils


Fair number of tri's were doing this 10+ years ago.

I'm thinking of the "Apricot" series of Tri's and "Biscuits" series as being prime examples.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: scooby_simon] #153900
09/04/08 01:52 PM
09/04/08 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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Look at where Couts is standing to steer. Now look at where the traveler is. Now think about what's going to happen in a gybe. Russel had better move quickly or he might be cut in half! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

And how long is it going to take him to -run- from one wheel to the other during a tack, and who is steering while he makes the transition? Or is he on a teather, and he just jumps off the back and swings over to the other side? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153901
09/04/08 02:15 PM
09/04/08 02:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
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california
not that much travel in a gybe with the spin up. looks to me like the logic choice is to hand of the wind ward wheel go lee and have the gybe controlled from the lee to windward side .


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153902
09/04/08 02:47 PM
09/04/08 02:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,303
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Quote
Look at where Couts is standing to steer. Now look at where the traveler is. Now think about what's going to happen in a gybe. Russel had better move quickly or he might be cut in half! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

And how long is it going to take him to -run- from one wheel to the other during a tack, and who is steering while he makes the transition? Or is he on a teather, and he just jumps off the back and swings over to the other side? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


The steering station is actually off the rear beam well clear and aft of the traveler. I don't completely understand why it's where it is but getting to the other steering station looks to be a rediculously arduous task. I suspect that they may intend to have two helmsmen and they trade off in tacks and gybes while the other meanders into some position on the high side. Transitioning one helmsmen between stations on a boat that wide would leave a long time where the helm is not being managed well - no matter where the stations are located...from this perspective it makes sense to have two helmsmen. Maybe that's it?


Jake Kohl
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153903
09/04/08 02:49 PM
09/04/08 02:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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France
Quote
Look at where Couts is standing to steer.
The one steering is Cammas, not Couts. At least they have the good idea to give the helm to somebody who knows how to steer a multihull. This should avoid repeat performance of the disasters they had with extreme 40 and Orma 60...

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: pepin] #153904
09/04/08 02:55 PM
09/04/08 02:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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Look at the hull shape...flat bottom and hard chines...the only way to get planing is with hard chines...as any power boater knows.

Regards,
Bob

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Jake] #153905
09/04/08 03:31 PM
09/04/08 03:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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Quote
it's 160 feet.

158 I believe.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153906
09/04/08 03:34 PM
09/04/08 03:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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Cammas is on the helm, but I believe Spithill is to helm as well.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: warbird] #153907
09/04/08 03:41 PM
09/04/08 03:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Quote
Too much rig.
It will be reefed all of the time in AC sailing window.


Looking at the latest pic's I would say they seem to have it figured out fairly well.


Have Fun
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: catman] #153908
09/04/08 03:46 PM
09/04/08 03:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Anyone got full stats for it.

I'm guessing luff of the mainsail is around 155feet, anyone know area? Ditto Jib and Kite.

LOA is 143 feet?

Weight?



yes, I am thinking of trying to calc an SCHRS for it ..... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: catman] #153909
09/04/08 03:47 PM
09/04/08 03:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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I thought the LOA was only supposed to be 90 feet, and 90 feet wide.

It does look a bit different with the flat bottom hulls. Who designed it? And what about Alinghy? When is theirs going in the water?

Last edited by Timbo; 09/04/08 03:49 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Timbo] #153910
09/04/08 04:05 PM
09/04/08 04:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Quote
It does look a bit different with the flat bottom hulls. Who designed it? And what about Alinghy? When is theirs going in the water?


According to the Front Page of SA, early next year.

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: scooby_simon] #153911
09/04/08 04:13 PM
09/04/08 04:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,303
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Quote
Anyone got full stats for it.

I'm guessing luff of the mainsail is around 155feet, anyone know area? Ditto Jib and Kite.

LOA is 143 feet?

Weight?



yes, I am thinking of trying to calc an SCHRS for it ..... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Alinghi sure wants the stats! (seems they are not too confident that appeal will be upheld)...all of that information is not yet public. The deed says something like "as soon as possible" for the boat certificate to be delivered to the defender...it says something similar for the defender to do the same for the location the event is to be held - a feat which Alinghi has not yet performed either.


Alinghi Letter to GGYC Aug 22


Jake Kohl
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Jake] #153912
09/04/08 04:17 PM
09/04/08 04:17 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


LOL!!!! thats awesome!

Let me Paraphrase.... We want your stats! But you wont give them... even though your protest is baseless... and you dont deserve to race... waaaaaa

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: ] #153913
09/04/08 05:10 PM
09/04/08 05:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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california
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california
5oo sq meters for the main


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
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R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: F-18 5150] #153914
09/04/08 05:53 PM
09/04/08 05:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
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2017 F18 Americas Site
[Linked Image]

I was curious after reading here so: I put the picture into my CAD package and scaled it to 90ft for the hulls. I had to put a white box in the picture to show where the back of the closest hull was. I do not know if the 90 is exactly accurate. You can see the scale on the bottom of the picture. Then I drew an area around the sail including the mast. I came up with 4004 Sq Ft. If that is accurate then in meters it is about 375 Sq Meters.

Later,
Dan

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: Dan_Delave] #153915
09/04/08 06:06 PM
09/04/08 06:06 PM
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Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
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[Linked Image]

In musing over it I realized that the height of the sail is almost the same as the width of the football field (160 ft.). The bottom of the sail is 37.5 feet. So if you could take the play the length of the boom you would have a first down.

With the jib and the spinnaker flying you would have about 1/4 the area of the grid of a whole football field. That's a lot of cloth!

Later,
Dan

Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: windswept] #153916
09/04/08 07:30 PM
09/04/08 07:30 PM
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Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
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Quote

Quote:
it's 160 feet.


158 I believe.


I think it is more like 157 feet, 5.76378 inches because that would equal 48 meters.

GARY <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: hobiegary] #153917
09/04/08 10:16 PM
09/04/08 10:16 PM
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california
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After leaving the dock at 11am, the team first hoisted the 5,000 square foot (500 meters square) mainsail up the 158-foot (48-meter) carbon fiber mast towering above the trimaran.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: F-18 5150] #153918
09/05/08 03:54 PM
09/05/08 03:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
erice Offline
old hand
erice  Offline
old hand
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
click the video of it coming out of the shed for some video of it sailing

http://www.cammas-groupama.com/do/m...at=152&page=0&media=1988


eric e
1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158
2009 weta tri - 294
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: erice] #153919
09/05/08 09:31 PM
09/05/08 09:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
There is also a good video of them training for -match racing- on two 60 foot tris.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: scooby_simon] #153920
09/10/08 03:37 PM
09/10/08 03:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
The sails are similarly off the charts: a 5,000-square-foot mainsail; a 3,500-square-foot headsail; and 7,000-square-foot gennaker.

100 ft long main (90 at waterline) and 90 by 90 on the outside. just what they said 90 x 90


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Let the Big Dog eat! [Re: TJP] #190155
09/03/09 04:33 PM
09/03/09 04:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,056
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
old hand
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,056
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Ok TJP,

What up with using my pre-cooler pic for your avatar?


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
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