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want to build a trapeze #154178
09/05/08 09:31 PM
09/05/08 09:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
P
petealmquist Offline OP
stranger
petealmquist  Offline OP
stranger
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
hi all, here's the deal... a new trapeze set-up for the cat i have would cost in excess of $350 and they say i would need to take the cat to the dealer to have it installed which would involve a 450 mile road trip (each way) and cost of labor, let alone time waiting for the job to be completed.

so, i want to build my own. does anyone have a set of drawings with measurements on cable lengths and hardware needed? alternately, does anyone have a good used set of trapeze cables with the needed hardware? hope for everything needed. thanks very much!

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: petealmquist] #154179
09/05/08 09:57 PM
09/05/08 09:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
Much more info is required if you seriously want help.


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: petealmquist] #154180
09/05/08 10:17 PM
09/05/08 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
I added twin traps to a Prindle 16, total cost was about $125, for the 4 wires, 4 handles, lines for all and bungie cord to hold it all together. I bought it from http://www.Murrays.com they have all the factory stuff for most cats but without knowing what you have for a boat, we can't know what length wires you need. You might also find it at the Catsailor online store here on this site, upper right corner. You can install it all yourself in about 20 minutes, free.

Last edited by Timbo; 09/05/08 10:21 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: petealmquist] #154181
09/06/08 12:38 AM
09/06/08 12:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
You will need per trapeze

1 x Trapeze handle - http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=PNP171R

[Linked Image]

1 x Trapeze dogbone - http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF48B

[Linked Image]

1 x Pulley - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF20101&admin=admin

[Linked Image]

1 x Tie Ball - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF1318R

[Linked Image]

2 x Sister clips - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF536&admin=admin

[Linked Image]

2 x Thimbles - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF482&admin=admin

[img]http://www.ronstan.com.au/images/product/RF481.jpg[/img]

3 mm Dyneema (Marlow D12) length from hounds to about 700mm from chainplate (??) - http://www.marlowropes.com/public/pageManager.cfm?page_id=155

[img]http://www.sailboats.co.uk/images/products/medium/58079.jpg[/img]

4 mm Spectra - http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemde...tAbsolutePage=1

[img]http://www.whitworths.com.au/products/180414_superbraid_lg.jpg[/img]

Use 3 mm dyneema instead of wire. Splice a loop around a thimble at the top end.
How to splice - http://www.marlowropes.com/public/pageManager.cfm?page_id=208

[img]http://64.78.32.235/assets/Adjust5.jpg[/img]

Second thimble, open slightly and place on the pulley.
Thread a trapeze handle on the other end and splice on another thimble with pulley attached.
Tie the 4mm spectra to the trapeze dogbone. Pass the other end of the spectra through the pulley, thread on a tie ball and tie on a sister clip.
Clip second sister clip on and tie a length of 4mm shock cord to it. This gets passed through an eyelet in the tramp, across to the other side where it will come out and join onto the lower sister clip of the other trapeze line.

I would suggest going down to a sailing club and asking someone to show you how to set it up.


Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: petealmquist] #154182
09/06/08 12:40 AM
09/06/08 12:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Attached Files

Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #154183
09/06/08 03:22 AM
09/06/08 03:22 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
That was a really good post T_A!

Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #154184
09/06/08 09:10 AM
09/06/08 09:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
addict
windswept  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
I agree with that.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: windswept] #154185
09/06/08 03:52 PM
09/06/08 03:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
old hand
warbird  Offline
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W

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
one

Attached Files
157131-99340-DSC03847.jpg (168 downloads)
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #154186
09/06/08 03:53 PM
09/06/08 03:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
old hand
warbird  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
two

Attached Files
157132-h1702b.jpg (155 downloads)
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: windswept] #154187
09/06/08 03:54 PM
09/06/08 03:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
old hand
warbird  Offline
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W

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
three

Attached Files
157133-chickenlineSM.jpg (157 downloads)
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: windswept] #154188
09/06/08 03:56 PM
09/06/08 03:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
four

Attached Files
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: warbird] #154189
09/06/08 04:15 PM
09/06/08 04:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 201
Adelaide, South Australia
simonp Offline
enthusiast
simonp  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 201
Adelaide, South Australia
What is the advantage of the dyneema over wire? Easier to make, lighter?

The one disadvantage i can see is rope is prone to tangles and nasty knots.

And Steve have you ever had one of those series 20 ronstan blocks fail? I found the stainless steel strap gets bent then gets deformed. Ive never had one break on me but it completely stuffs the pulley. Might have something to do with the losds i'm putting it under! I ended up used the RF30100 http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF30100 .


Simon
BLADE F16 AUS405
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: simonp] #154190
09/06/08 10:39 PM
09/06/08 10:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
I prefer the Harken micro blk to the Ronstan 20 or the no name blk that Murrays sells for trap set ups. I've had both deform in this application.
In attachmnet 3, are we looking at a chicken line diagram? Is there some low friction grommet that the lines pass thru entering the rear beam? Does the shock cord that retracts the retaining line terminate somewhere on the aft deck, pass thru the grommet to a blk secured inside the rear beam, and then exit the beam to an attachment to the retaining line? How is the interior blk secured? How is the shock cord attached to the retaining line? How is the retaining line attached to the trapeze dogbone?
Thanks so much, this is a great thread!

Dave

Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: simonp] #154191
09/07/08 12:24 AM
09/07/08 12:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Quote
What is the advantage of the dyneema over wire? Easier to make, lighter?

The one disadvantage i can see is rope is prone to tangles and nasty knots.

And Steve have you ever had one of those series 20 ronstan blocks fail? I found the stainless steel strap gets bent then gets deformed. Ive never had one break on me but it completely stuffs the pulley. Might have something to do with the losds i'm putting it under! I ended up used the RF30100 http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF30100 .


I have never used Dyneema for trap lines as the F18 class did not allow it, which frustrated me because I have a roll of D12. My next boat will have D12 traps.

Advantages are

- You can quickly make them up on the beach witout the need of a swaging tool.
- Lighter than wire
- Easier to roll at the end of the day then wire.
- Shows wear long before they fail. Wire can go without notice at times.

As for the 20 series Ronstan, I have never had them fail in that application and it is good enough for the rockstars (see above). Also use them on self tacking jibs and mast rotation. Have had them fail in spinnaker halyard applications. Like you said, the strap can bend if loaded up at a bad angle, distorting the casing and locking up the pully, quickly resulting in chewing out the pully. They are cheap though and if they show signs of distortion, just replace.


Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #154192
09/07/08 12:42 AM
09/07/08 12:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 201
Adelaide, South Australia
simonp Offline
enthusiast
simonp  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 201
Adelaide, South Australia
how long would you expect a D12 trap line to last? Do you have any special way of rolling them to avoid tangles. I'm thinking of going to this system but I can already see the mess I could get into.<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I've used the series 20 blocks many of places with no problems. It's just on the trap wires that they have got deformed. Must be something else I am doing wrong.


Simon
BLADE F16 AUS405
Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: simonp] #154193
09/07/08 02:06 AM
09/07/08 02:06 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
We had our spectra trapeze lines on the boat for four years without trouble. 3mm with a nylon cover.
To avoid tangles with any line, I never roll or coil them. Wires have to be rolled to avoid kinks and problems but I prefer to fold my lines and tie them off. By folding the line is not twisted like it would be if coiled. Folding is faster and takes less time than rolling in my experience <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Make the folds short enough for the line diameter, and it should come out of storage agan really well.

Here is one example on how to do it: http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/2116049/butterflycoil-main_Full.jpg

Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #154194
09/07/08 02:37 AM
09/07/08 02:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Quoting one of Warbirds attachments.

[Linked Image]

Attached Files

Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #154195
09/07/08 03:30 AM
09/07/08 03:30 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
I was unable to tell wether those lines were coiled or folded in the picture <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #154196
09/07/08 03:40 AM
09/07/08 03:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
You know something funny! That image was originally posted by me and those were the trap lines I had/used on my blade. They were built by Trey Brown from Team Velocity Sailing.

WOW atleast give credit where credit is due warbird!

Re: want to build a trapeze [Re: simonp] #154197
09/07/08 05:06 AM
09/07/08 05:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


The traplines can even be made simpler.

I do advice using a bead instead of that figure 8 plastic thingy. The latter seems to do really well in eating through the line.

For 7 years now I use 3 mm dyneema line where I have made loops using a double figure 8 knot, Rock climbers know what I mean here. Personally I use a plastic thimble in the top loop where I tighten the loop in the line by stitching, however friends of mine have used only the line loop for long times without problems. At the bottom I put the line through the handle of secure it into place using a figure 8 knot or even better a blood knot (figure 8 with an extra rotation of the line around the line). Then at the very bottom another double figure 8 loop. This loop is permanent and it is secured to a stainless steel ring or shackle using a fishermans hitch. This knot can be tied and undone without fiddling with the line. Just move the line loop through the eye and cross it back over the eye itself. Dissassembly is in reverse. The fact that the bungee and the running line with dogbone is later attached makes becoming undo impossible and acts as extra security.

The ring or shackle replaces the ball bearing block and works just as well if not better as they don't bend out of shape or wear out. By careful to use shackles with circular sides and no lefts over barbs. Tie the dogbone to one end of the running line (fisherhitch again) and run the line through the ring or shackle. Tie a loop in the other end after you have slid the bead on the line. A sheet bend is the right not here (if that is the correct English name). This loop can easily be adjusted thus repositioning the bead for the right height of the trapeze. The loop itself can then be hooked by the bungee using a plastic hook. For quick trap height adjustement use the two rings of the dogbone.

This setup is by far the most inexpensive and most easy to make and will last for years. My 3 mm 500 kg break dyneema lines have so far survived 4 years of sailing and open air storage at the beach for 6 months each season. I weight close to 90 kg and sail in rough seas often.

Component list :

3 mm / 500 kg garanteed dyneema line
A plastic thimble (if so desired but can be doen without)
A plastic handle
A stainless steel ring of small diameter or a smooth small shackle
A short piece of 5 mm abbresive resistant dyneema line
A dogbone
A plastic bead large enough to not pass through the ring/shackel
A plastic hook
Bungee cord (I use 4 mm max as the dyneema trap lines are so light that they don't need a large retaining force)
Needle and thread if you want to stitch the thimble in tight.

Good luck

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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