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Winglets on trailing edge #155509
09/20/08 06:33 PM
09/20/08 06:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline OP
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Trying these out today as I have been thinking they are a good idea for years on trailing edge of square tops.
Chance for you to tell me how mentally challenged I am Wouts.

Attached Files
158492-PICT0064.JPG (429 downloads)
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: warbird] #155510
09/20/08 06:42 PM
09/20/08 06:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Do you have a bigger picture? Cant make out where on the sail this is.

Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: Tony_F18] #155511
09/20/08 06:53 PM
09/20/08 06:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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Looks like the end of a batten.

Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: warbird] #155512
09/21/08 12:11 AM
09/21/08 12:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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That looks very much like the wingtips on the Airbus 320 and 310! I have wondered if it would work on a sail. Let us know if you see any difference, I think it might need to be bigger though. http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=264848

The other thing I have thought about was adding vortex generators to the main about a foot back from the mast, for light air sailing.

Last edited by Timbo; 09/21/08 12:20 AM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: Tony_F18] #155513
09/21/08 01:47 AM
09/21/08 01:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline OP
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Top batten at aft end of square top.
Designed to lessen drag of vortex. SImilar to eagles wing tips. You will notice they curve up and yes the plane manufacturers are now using them to improve economy.
Yes, they may need to be bigger.

Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: warbird] #155514
09/21/08 05:50 AM
09/21/08 05:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Quote
Trying these out today as I have been thinking they are a good idea for years on trailing edge of square tops.
Chance for you to tell me how mentally challenged I am Wouts.


How are you going to tie it in?

Don't you need a hole somewhere to tie it into the batten pocket?


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: warbird] #155515
09/21/08 11:39 AM
09/21/08 11:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 138
California!
Inter_Michael Offline
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California!
I think this was talked about some time ago. The topic being winglets, the term used for plane wings. Instead of on the end of a batten, why not the mast itself? The idea of a winglet is not one of added lift, rather it is of decreased drag.

One could make a winglet for a mast that even had some floatation in it, no? Most winglets are on the top surface only, even the airbus has a larger surface on the top, than on the bottom. I think it was conveyed that the winglet on a mast would indeed count towards sail area.

As far as vortex generators go, I don't know that you would get the same effect on a sail as you would a wing. The purpose is indeed for 'slow-flight', but, it is mostly to keep attachment over the aileron.

Might be curious to see this develop thru the years....

Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: scooby_simon] #155516
09/21/08 01:23 PM
09/21/08 01:23 PM
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Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline OP
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Quote
Quote
Trying these out today as I have been thinking they are a good idea for years on trailing edge of square tops.
Chance for you to tell me how mentally challenged I am Wouts.


How are you going to tie it in?

Don't you need a hole somewhere to tie it into the batten pocket?


Yes, I photographed them the minute I had fitted the batten snugly and just after this photo I marked the holes and drilled them.
All works well.

As it happens a friends giant carbon wing sail was destroyed in a storm last year and I will form the batten out of the sides of that once I have had feedback about size etc. so the weight can be reduced.

Attached Files
Last edited by warbird; 09/21/08 01:38 PM.
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: Inter_Michael] #155517
09/21/08 01:39 PM
09/21/08 01:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
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Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline OP
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FYI
Looking at this bird one wonders if the wing on a sail could be a cloth hinged unit that flipped over to the other side on tack as the bird and plane both exit the shape to the "lift" side.

Attached Files
Last edited by warbird; 09/21/08 01:42 PM.
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: warbird] #155518
09/21/08 09:49 PM
09/21/08 09:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Quote

Looking at this bird one wonders if the wing on a sail could be a cloth hinged unit that flipped over to the other side on tack as the bird and plane both exit the shape to the "lift" side.


Makes sense. And if the vortex itself isn't enought to tack the winglet, the inversion of curvature of the batten in a tack can generate the force needed to do the job.


Luiz
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: warbird] #155519
09/22/08 07:18 AM
09/22/08 07:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
FYI
Looking at this bird one wonders if the wing on a sail could be a cloth hinged unit that flipped over to the other side on tack as the bird and plane both exit the shape to the "lift" side.


In the picture attached, I suspect the feathers on the tip of the eagle's wings are there for stability in slow flight - not efficiency. They may even have very little affect on the airflow but may just be positioned that way to give the bird additional feedback about the airflow conditions on each end of it's wing so it can avoid a stall condition.

[Linked Image]


Jake Kohl
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: Jake] #155520
09/22/08 08:39 AM
09/22/08 08:39 AM

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Anonymous
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looks like you lost a little weight in your avitar Jake!

Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: ] #155521
09/22/08 10:38 AM
09/22/08 10:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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looks like you lost a little weight in your avitar Jake!


And he gave up smoking....


Jay

Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: ] #155522
09/22/08 11:25 AM
09/22/08 11:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
MUST429 Offline
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I thought that was just how he looked after the Tybee 500.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: waterbug_wpb] #155523
09/22/08 12:01 PM
09/22/08 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
Quote
looks like you lost a little weight in your avitar Jake!


And he gave up smoking....


I don't need to smoke anymore - I got my a-cat smoking now.


Jake Kohl
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: Jake] #155524
09/22/08 12:11 PM
09/22/08 12:11 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I "DIG" them gloves!

You wouldn't want dish-pan hands while fighting crime (yes i am assuming you are a crime fighter... why else wear a cape!?)

Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: ] #155525
09/22/08 02:00 PM
09/22/08 02:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
I "DIG" them gloves!

You wouldn't want dish-pan hands while fighting crime (yes i am assuming you are a crime fighter... why else wear a cape!?)


That's what it's all about. Crime and dirty windows.


Jake Kohl
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: Jake] #155526
09/22/08 02:20 PM
09/22/08 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
MUST429 Offline
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MUST429  Offline
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Quote
Quote
I "DIG" them gloves!

You wouldn't want dish-pan hands while fighting crime (yes i am assuming you are a crime fighter... why else wear a cape!?)


That's what it's all about. Crime and dirty windows.


The joker read that and said ... "Why So Seriousssssss"
and then licked his lips and went running off the other direction. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: Luiz] #155527
09/23/08 08:28 AM
09/23/08 08:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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how do the ice boat masts work? They look like they are warped in some way


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: Winglets on trailing edge [Re: Jake] #155528
09/26/08 08:23 AM
09/26/08 08:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
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JACKFLASH Offline
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I should stay out of this since I have absolutely no aerodynamic training, but as I understand it (from years of training on the Discovery Channel) the winglet, as well as those little fins that they stick on the top of plane wings were put in place to keep the air from spilling off the end of the wing thus keeping the flow more front to back and there for making it more efficient. Improved air flow/attachment equals less power needed to generate the same amount of lift.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
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